Raymond Tallis - Arguments for Atheism?

Turn the tables on God’s existence. Start with atheism, not with theism. Atheists take their best shots at disproving God; theists in turn defend God, deflecting anti-God arguments. Atheists come harder still; theists resist, fight back. We keep the arguments tough-minded and the thinking critical.

Raymond C. Tallis is a a retired physician and neuroscientist from Great Britain. His resume boasts titles like philosopher, poet and novelist. He is also a member of the Academy of Medical Sciences, the Royal College of Physicians and Royal Society of Arts.

Closer To Truth, hosted by Robert Lawrence Kuhn and directed by Peter Getzels, presents the world’s greatest thinkers exploring humanity’s deepest questions. Discover fundamental issues of existence. Engage new and diverse ways of thinking. Appreciate intense debates. Share your own opinions. Seek your own answers.

[piehound]

I very much like the fact of Dr. Tallis' ability and willingness to participate in a conversation. He has definite ideas . . . and yet doesn't put up a dogmatic front. Most likeable and human at the same time. Thanks.

[browngreen]

I'm with this dude. The Abrahamic god is bunk. But Existence contains deep, unfathomable mystery.

[benderthefourth]

Hidden by the ink of history, there are events we do not know. Somebody that liked an idea particularly more than others from their contemporary philosophy / way of life / way of thinking, pushed that idea. Pushed it so much that when war arrived and he won, that idea became the status quo. Those who were born after could not access the old ideas that the prevalent idea came from, and they just worked with what they got. Centuries pass and people studied the idea in every aspect, they elaborated it. The idea became a person. But nothing tells us that the ida corresponds to truth.
So yes, we can spend centuries and millennia studying something wrong.

[BFDT-]

We simply "don't know" and for now that should be OK, until we learn more about the how and why of existence.

Just have a beer and enjoy existence.

[ultimateman]

There are two kinds of people in the world: Those who admit they don't know and those who pretend like they do.

[mattsbiome]

Robert, I wanted to express how much I enjoyed your wrestling in this video. The execution was just so good. Great questions. Loved the video. Much love to you and to Raymond on his journey.
As an adherent of one of the Abrahamic faiths Raymond spoke of, it is always wonderful to wrestle with these sorts of questions/conversations. I find some people's positions very empty. (This is not meant to be an insult. It is about what I personally find compelling.) And seeing Raymond confronting or being confronted with these types of ideas/questions in a thoughtful/peaceful way was refreshing.

[davec-]

The host hit the intuition that drives belief

“I think everything needs an explanation, even if that explanation is a brute fact”

If you are going to accept the principle of sufficient reason but then arrest that principle at God you have violated or modified the principle to fit your wants.

Also, the principle of parsimony would suggest just to arrest the ultimate brute fact at the level of the universe (whatever you take that to be)

God is superfluous

[Ghostdogk]

I really like this gentleman. His stance resonates with me.

[Techangelist]

The heart of the matter is this, and the interviewer alluded to it speaking for himself: “i cannot find an explanation for our existence, for our uniqueness, and i am uncomfortable not knowing the answer. And God seems as satisfying an explanation as any and I am no longer carrying the uncomfortableness of not knowing“ not in so many words but that was the essence of his personal belief. Tallis is simply comfortable with not knowing.

[brendangreeves]

Nature is essentially relational and dynamical.
To believe in a supreme being is to believe in the absolute.But what we call nature is fundamentally a manifestation of ever changing patterns of relations in infinite dimensions.
There can be nothing "beyond" infinity. The absolute is impossible.
The concept of creation is meaningless in this context.
Conscious experience is the manifestation of patterns of change. Absent those changes there is no conscious experience.

[festeradams]

Most of Kuhn's "hopefulness" consists of desperately trying to find somebody to tell him there is one... If there is, it is readily apparent that the Deists might be correct..."on the 7th day God rested"...and then skedaddled out of town to avoid the blame later :-).

[duncanwallace]

I think he was saying, "stop wasting time talking about god(s) and try to work out what's actually going on".

[ivanbeshkov]

Humanity no longer believes that the sun revolves around earth, but many still cling to the notion that the entire universe revolves around us.

[MJ]

Atheists don’t need to prove anything. The burden is on believers.

[arthurwieczorek]

Belief in God is anthropomorphic metaphysics.

[theotormon]

To this I can only say ... fair enough, good sir!

[kmn]

I just finished listening to a ridiculous podcast interview between Jordan Peterson and John Lennox -- 'sophisticated' nonsense. Both of them! And neither actually agrees with the other, but neither cares. They're both euphoric about their own metaphysical nonsense. I love that Ray Tallis doesn't hide behind sophistry and bullsh*t. More people need to read him. He takes seriously what we don't know and refuses to 'insert God-of-the-gaps here'. Thanks for posting the interview. Restores my sanity after listening to village idiots.

[mabalbhat]

When some one says there is no god, it is the god they created does not exist. God is story of life, like any other story of life we humans have created such as family life, working life etc etc. Cultures have created god with many different colorful narrations.

[jeremymr]

I would love to see a discussion between Raymond Tallis and Christian philosopher Joshua Rasmussen, who thinks the properties of god aren't contradictory but the best explanation of reality. I'm reading his book "How Reason Can Lead to God" and it's probably the strongest theist book I've read. I'm agnostic. Raymond said, "I'm skewered on fundamental reality..." Me too, man.

[orbital]

Sounds like a ping pong match was happening on a table off camera...