HBM Dixon vs. EMCO Dickson quick change tool post

In this video I compare an original vintage EMCO Dickson quick change tool post to a copy named Dixon and sold by the Dutch company HBM. I suspect the qctp copy originates from India as all the eBay advertisers that sell these seem to come from India.

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[eyuptony]

Hi RM
Interesting video. Make a nice fitting screw on tall bush to screw over the long fixing bolt, file two flats on it for a spanner then tighten it down to the top slide. This fits inside the tool block and will stop the top of the tool block rattling about when you loosen it. I also made a locknut and modified a detachable ring spanner to loosen it, I don't like fixed handles, I find they are in the way some of the time.
I've had my Dicksons tool post since the mid 1980's, it really did some hard work back then. It's never let me down saved me loads of time swopping tool bits over.
Still works as good as new. I have recently bought some new after market tool holders to compare, they fit perfectly. Great piece of quality tooling.

[chrismate]

Glad you showed this, I was trying for a very long time to get a QCTP for my 330mm swing lathe, where I live only piston type, so I gave up. Use my original post with shims for each indexable 12mm toolholder, the shimms ready for each makes it easy to use...made a toolpost for 12mm boringbar set, works like a dream, less moving parts less vibration, now making a toolpost for 10mm indexable carbide holders. So I now swop toolposts for each type of tool, and this works actually very good, no vibrations, no parting off problems which was a relief.
I may get a Knuth small Multifix toolpost set later, waiting for price, but it looks very expensive....Their 170 Lathe comes out new with it.

[motleypixel]

I liked it, glad you didn't throw the videos away. Thank you.

[daveticehurst]

RM, I did this comment on your last toolpost video, as you did not reply, perhaps you missed it. Good luck with it.
That extra hole in the toolpost was for a removable dowel pin. When first fitted corectly with the centering collar fitted below and the correct fitting bolt and usually a centering bush at the top; the tool post was lined up square with the lathe axis. A hole was then transfered into the compound slide and reamed a good fit. The whole idea was you pulled out the dowl to angle the tool post for general turning, but when you needed to part off, slacken the bolt, replace the dowel and the tool was then back at 90 degrees to the lathe axis. Really to fit yours correctly would be to machine an accurate recess in the top of your compound about 4 mm deep, to exactly the same diameter that is ground into the base of the toolpost. If the same diameter recess will make it too close to the edge of the compound, then make it smaller diameter and make the collar /washer stepped. You then make a close fitting collar / washer, this ensures a location fit that will not move axialy, only rotate and at the top you also need a close fitting stepped collar. This collar does 2 functions, locates the toolpost centrally to the bolt, acts as a washer for the nut and also restricts the movement of the locking cam ( as you discovered with your home made one). Finally the bolt has to be a nice close fit to the top bush and be as big a diameter as possible for that size of QCTP, probably a 1/2 " bolt, preferably of 8.8 tensile strength. These Genuine Dickson toolposts were industry standard at one time 1970's to 1980's in the UK for the low end priced lathes, the high end was the Swiss made Multifix system ( still being made today ) Sadly Dickson's are no more, but plenty of Chinese knock offs, of questionable quality, often poor materials. I was a Machine Tool Fitter for 35 Years and spent many a happy hour fitting Dickson's and later Multifix's to the Company's workshop lathes of all sizes, from Boley watchmakers to our largest Lathe a Dean Smith and Grace 60 inch between centers lathe. When the workshop closed I scrounged 2 Multifix toolposts and about 20 holders to use on my Myford and Hardinge HLV Toolroom Lathes now here in my workshop in Adelaide, Australia. Re watched the start of the video, noticed that you already have a recess machined in your compound slide, as I said above, make yourself a close fitting collar that fits the compound and the toolpost, this will stop any axial movement of the toolpost.

[tectalabyss]

Hi RM. Always happy to see another video. All my best. Liked, Shared, Added to playlists.

[michaellinahan]

Having one of the QCTP from the great Mau's empire I retired the lantern toolpost that came with the lathe quite quickly but I recently got it back into use as a dedicated parting attachment I used one of the insert parting blade tools with 12mm square shank in the lantern toolpost as the cutting edge is much closer to the fixing bolt so it is much more stable I have also replaced the compound with a block of steel of the same height so now the parting off is a breeze Last night I was making 10mm thick washers from 55mm diameter bar stock at 420rpm and I didn't have to change underwear once as there was no digging in and loud bangs as the parting blade broke!

[ActiveAtom]

Nice share on these QCTP's and the holders that go into them, your original is great to have.
Thank you for showing these differences.
Lance & Patrick.

[lv_woodturner]

Thanks, an interesting video showing the differences in detail. I do prefer my Aloris style QCTP over this design.
Dave.

[RockingJOffroad]

I use a Chinese copy of the Aloris quick change tool post, I am happy with it and the variety of tool holders. There are two types, the post style and the wedge style. The wedge style seems much more rigid to me. The post type is less expensive, but don’t buy it. I bought two of them and neither worked for me.

[robbiestevens]

I can see the grooves between the facets helping to align easier to the tool post, a sharp corner in the V and a sharp corner on the holder would kick the holder out. I reckon it also means they can grind both facet without kissing the wheel on the other side. Cool video thanks for the comparison, I was thinking about buying one of these for my hobbymat 😁

[briandantz]

Get a question. I have a 50 plus year old dickson on a colchester master. I don't think your Emco is an original Dickson. The bolts on the original were square head and the height adjusters look different. Is your Emco a copy as well?

[matthiash.]

I recently brought a Gib-style toolpost from banggood. It is a little bit small for my lathe, but I was surprised about the rigidity. I turned a snuck fittiting mounting stud out of tool steel, hardened it and it turned out very well. So I brought a bigger bunch of toolholders and are fine.
I like this toolpost style because it relays on a simple dove tail clamping mechanism. This can easily made myself, so even in decades I can still use the tool post. Just whish they sell the bigger version with gib clamping, but they all are piston type ones.
I have to say even parting off has now more rigidity even compared to the old 4-way tool post. So the small one is fine for me.

[lucwybo]

I have purchased the M-series from Dixon. The block is larger (75x75x51mm) and is more rigid than the K series. I am also busy making new set screws. The diameter of the lower ring was too small (from 20 to 23 mm) and I made it less high.
To assemble this block I made a special shaft that was pressed into the cross slide.

[duanedickey]

That 7mm hole is probably for a dowel pin.?

[DavoShed]

Just watching your parting tool jam up again (yes it does suck)
I wonder what flexed so much?
It seemed to pull the tool holder right out of the vee ways.
I have never tried parting upside down in reverse.
I can’t these days anyway as my machine has no reverse and the chuck backing plate is a screw on to the spindle nose.
My quick change tool post doesn’t have that groove where the centre height adjusting screw fits into locking bolt.
The height screw just rests on the top surface the tool post. It’s way simpler but. Must be because mine is the next size bigger post.
You could make a stepped bolt instead of a puck. Less parts equals more rigidity.
Thanks for sharing ;)

[ocphish]

I understand a lot of kit supplied by HBM, originates in China.

[waynep]

if you are going to make a hockey puck for the bottom of the emco tool post. make a flanged bushing (to fit down in the top to stop the tool post from rocking over on the studs.. you can also either make a spacer so you can use the original crank handle for the tool post stud or just a stack of washers till you get the right height.. i was waiting for you to put the Hold my beer tool post and the emco tool post bottom to bottom to compare them.. the last second of your video where the OOPS happened.. go back and look carefully at what flexed.. did the spindle move.. did the tool post rock.. did the compound lift up .. did the cross slide lift up.. or did the entire table come up off the ways..

[wibblywobblyidiotvision]

Saw your last video on the hbm post, saw the parting disaster. I'm guessing you're going with the Emco post with all the holders? The parting disaster seemed to be due to the holder pulling loose, perhaps due to the drawbar vibrating loose? I assume you checked the parting tool holder for rectitude after the incident, if they are hardened then my guess would be the post going wrong. Have you tried parting with the same holder on the Emco post?


questions, questions.

[kymcopyriot]

Thanks as always RM...but good grief, what a drama. So...original tool post plus fake tool post plus some mixing and matching plus some machining equals...success, maybe? Didn't know it was so complicated! Again, my Chinesium AXA knockoff was cheap, everything works, it's rigid and parts off in my Hercus like a champ. Looking forward to your next installment!

[walterimbrechts]

If its HBM U call it fake alway's I am using all HBM tools and lathe and it is 1a so??