Ben Shapiro vs Jordan Peterson on Christianity vs Judaism Misses One KEY Point

Ollie analyses a discussion between Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson on Dave Rubin's show where they compare and contrast Christianity and Judaism. As Ollie argues, a key issue is missed that gets to the root of the debate.

[n]

As Jews, we believe what we believe. We don't really care if others don't share our views. People who want to convert to Judaism actually have to go through a long demanding process to make sure they are truly committed to our faith. I only wish other religions would allow us to exist even if we don't accept their beliefs. Judaism says that if you are a good person who does good - dose'nt matter if you're Jewish or not. You will be judged according to your actions on this earth. PEACE 🙏🏽

[eddihaskell]

I'm Jewish. not Orthodox but a Conservative (middle of the road) Jew. I am very appreciative of Christianity in all its forms. Jews and Christians come from the same source, we follow the same book (the Old Testament / The Torah), have the same moral values, and after 2, 000 years are living in peace together for I am very fortunate to live in a Chrsitian majority nation, the United State of America, and not in a place like Iran or Communist China. I see no reason to debate or ciriticize any one who is Christian, and fully accept Christian belief. I like my own faith, and lucky for me, I live in a nation where I am free to follow it, and do not have to listen to any "official" state missionary or belief, and can simply shut the door on anyone who comes to preach conversion to me. Let me repeat, I am very fortunate to live in a Christian majority nation in the Westen World - in a civilization formed on Jewish / Christian values. No need to debate or criticize.

[angienavarro]

I needed to hear your message
I’m needed❤
Thank you

[Dakini]

I just don’t understand why we continue to engage in these conversations. I hope that Jews and Christian’s support and care for each other in these very dangerous times when Islam wants to obliterate both faiths. We have bigger fish to fry.
🤍✡️🤍✝️🤍

[PadmeSkywalker-igmr]

I think that these conversations show how far Christian/ Jewish relations have come over the past hundred years. I hope that, as a Christian, other Christians will recognize the hate that Jews have to go through, and that we can be good friends to them

[Matthewtweet]

Appreciate you taking the time to discuss this topic. However, I'm not sure Peterson (*who, at the time of that video clip and perhaps even now, is not a practising Christian) was the best choice to represent Christian theology. Your conclusions seem to caricature Christine doctrine - which, by the way, is based primarily on the New Testament - the majority of which was penned by Jews who reference the Old Testament countless times. If you haven't already, I challenge you to read the New Testament. I also challenge you to read Isaiah 53. I would also be interested to hear your take on Jewish messianic expectation...

[travelmusic]

I love this channel, but your depiction of the Christian faith is very shallow, bordering on straw man arguments. I’m a Christian that found my way back Hashem thanks to Judaism.
Christianity is in its core Judaism: Yehoshua and his disciples and Paul were all Jews, who spread the wisdom of the Torah globally.
Christians are your biggest allies in this critical time, and as Christians it is our religious duty to bless Israel.

[JonathanMoosey]

It’s very difficult to have a Christian vs Judaism debate. I do believe that both Ben and Jordan have a great amount of respect for one another. But the issue is that because there are so many denominations of Christianity. Catholics and Orthodox Christians believe in Faith and Works/Actions while Protestants tend to believe in Faith Alone. Catholic/Orthodox Christians are closer to their Jewish roots than Protestant counterparts. As a Catholic, I appreciate greatly the Jewish foundation of Christianity as Jesus and his disciples were Jewish. In my opinion, if God pick Judaism for his son to practice it can’t be that bad of a religion.

[aprilazmon]

Really great information, so helpful to see the bigger picture, the forest through the trees. As a convert to Judaism, I internalized the light of the Jewish people which drew me in before I understood the details, practicality, scope or direction this would take me. As an Israeli, I have now witnessed the antisemitism I was once native enough to believe was only ever relevent in history lessons. I thought the rest of the world felt the way I did when seeing the horrors and vulgarity of the second World War. I'm only beginning to realize what a sickness of the soul looks like and how it plays out in mass protests under completely fantastical pretenses. It's been a lot to digest these past 10 months, but it has all brought me closer to Him, to help me understand what it's all about and how the world truly works. These videos about greater appreciation of the reasons for the chaos give me hope and strength, but also guidance. While doing the conversion here in Israel, I got a lot about the practical aspects, but not much about the spiritual battle and Jewish perspective on life, death, what it all means. Thank you for these videos which fill a gap and help to ease the feeling of depression and return a sense of purpose.

[FAArchbold]

Loved it very much. Thank you from my heart ❤

[DrivenByDetails]

Finally a discussion that gives me words to express my feelings. I always viewed Christianity as almost identical to Judaism, except I didn’t like the idea that morally, you were able to take the actions you should take full responsibility for, and put them on Christ. The idea of sitting in a closed box to confess your sins to a religious figure, and presto you’re absolved of your sins, seemed a little too much for me to accept. There’s a difference between being absolved of the sin and absolved of what caused you to sin in the first place. The latter is most important and Christianity doesn’t deal with that. Judaism does. The idea of Yom Kippur is also a little much for me to accept, because of the cleansing of sins on one specific day, but Ollie talking about Rabbi Friedman makes more sense to me, when your framework is that god, or whatever you like to call it, needs you. It’s our actions, our children, our words, etc., that are needed to be moral, not the person themselves. “It’s not about me or you! Islam likes to think of itself as being the ultimate mixture of Judaism and Christianity, that it’s the final and last word of the greatest God, which to me is all nonsense as well. If you can’t think of your own version of a religion from scratch, and instead you borrow and then change them to highlight the most evil side of humanity, and especially when you learn that what Muhammad called his “religion” was really a feeble attempt at fooling people into converting to Islam, and then you find out that if you didn’t fall for his subterfuge, you were going to be killed, or you could be a Jew and pay protection money, which really shows what Islam is, which is a mafia-like organization based on threats of violence, and an organization that doesn’t take prisoners. I see Judaism as being the best version of oneself, I see Christianity removes the burden of taking total responsibility, but you do assume most of it. Islam wins the prize for not taking responsibility for anything. You can murder in cold blood, clean up the mess, and roll out your prayer carpet and Allah says you’ve glorified me, I forgive you, and go do it again, because that raises Islam’s self esteem. Muslims claim victimhood and they make themselves out to always be downtrodden. Instead of having a Jesus-like figure, they pick a Satanic figure, who can do no wrong and need never apologize for any wrong doing. In fact, everything Mohammed did, whether it was physical torture, barbarism, sexual repression, lying, deceit, sex slaves, making men into eunuchs to protect the harem, etc., is all deemed permissible behavior in the 21st century, as it was in the 7th. Mohammed fashions himself as a prophet who never prophesied anything, and envisions himself as a god like figure, Allah can never be questioned or asked to explain the foundations that support the beliefs. This way you create a cult of worshippers who only know what you’ve told them, so telling people it’s a peaceful religion, knowing that statement will never be challenged, is a foolproof way to grow the religion, i.e., until social media arrived. Now you can spread more lies more quickly and more universally. Islam is Allah, and Allah is Mohammed, and Islam’s basic tenets represent the worst possible version of anybody you could ever think of, something along the line of a malignant narcissist/sociopath. Being unable to question the ideas promoted by a religion, for fear of either being killed, and if you’re not killed in this life, you’re going to be tortured in the grave for the rest of time, seems a rather unholy alliance between a sick mind trying to meld two other religions that are based on peace and “love thy neighbor”. The whole concept of Islam, which is do as I do and do as I say, and don’t question anything or any of my religious representatives, no matter how insane you think it is, and then being made to feel like you’re not good enough as a person for asking for clarification, is not a cult I want any part of.

[holystrawberry]

If you want to talk Christianity please read the New Testament first! how many of you are having these discussions and strong opinions, but never read the New Testament?

[anitamartin]

Really well said. Thank you 💕 And God bless

[georgetteharvey]

Christianity and Judaism are not much different only about Jesus. Judaism is foundation of Christianity

[BBassistChrist]

This is an interesting conversation. Our purpose on earth being to do good is a good representation for Judaism, but the purpose of Christianity is not just to get salvation. The Westminster Confession says, "The chief end of man is to know God and enjoy Him forever." While I would agree with the Westminster Confession that our ultimate purpose is to get to know, fellowship, and enjoy God, I also agree with the Jewish purpose of doing good in the world.

I would offer another purpose we have that will satisfy both: we are called to be a light. Jews are to be a light to the Nations (Isaiah 49:6), and Christians are to shine the light of Christ before men (John 1:9/Matthew 5:16). So, what is our purpose in life? It is to know and love God intimately, and to be His light in the world through good works.

Nevertheless, the issue of Christians obsessing over acquiring salvation is a valid one, as it does dominate a lot of Christian conversation and ministry. However, this point is kind of paradoxical or contradictory while saying the problem of Christianity is that it's all about God giving you salvation, while Judaism is about doing good for God. So Christianity is about the acceptance of Christ, -we are incapable of taking on our own sin, while Judaism is about the commandments that perfect you as a human being -accepting responsibility for yourself? And yet, Christianity about acquiring salvation?

I would agree that many Christians have made it about "earning" salvation. This is a big debate between Catholics and Protestants. Protestants emphasize that salvation is given by Christ Alone (Solus Christus), by Grace Alone (Sola Gratia), through Faith Alone (Sole Fide), -that it's not of works, lest anyone should boast (Ephesians 2:8-9). Conversely, Catholicism argues that while Christ is sufficient for salvation, works "increase merits of grace", -that faith alone cannot save (James 2:24).

Since the New Testament clearly says salvation is faith apart from works, but faith without works is dead, many theologians have discussed the balance of this. I was once talking to a friend about this, where I gave this example:

"Do you love your mother?"
"Of course."
"So if I tell you that you have to go buy your mom flowers in order to prove that you love her, would buying your mom flowers be an act of love?"
"No, I would just be buying them out of obligation."
"But wouldn't buying your mom flowers be a good way of showing your mom you love her?"
"Of course."
"So you see, when you're obligated to buy your mom flowers, it doesn't prove you love her, but when you do it out of your own freewill it is love. Similarly, if you told me you love your mother, yet I always see you yelling at her, and talking bad about her behind her back, should I really believe you love her?"
"No."
"So actions do not decide our affection for our mom, but they do reveal our true affection. It is the same way with God. If we do works because it's needed for salvation, then it's not good works, but selfishness to earn heaven. But if we are saved and God's Spirit lives within us, then we will naturally do good works without trying to buy our salvation."

Both Judaism and Christianity must wrestle with what our purpose on earth is, and how we obtain paradise (which, yes, I prefer the term paradise/Eden over "heaven"). Empty ritual with unrepentant hearts is only offensive to God (Isaiah 1:11:-15). God does not delight in our mitzvah or sacraments (Psalm 51:16-17). But when our hearts are purified, then our sacrifices, prayers, offerings, and works are pleasing to God (Isaiah 1:16-17/Psalm 51:19/Psalm 50:14). We are called for good works, but only works of a genuine heart can ultimately be good. This is why Jesus said the whole of the Torah is to love God and to love your neighbor (Matthew 22:37-40).

[dsili]

You need to debate Peterson with Rabii Tuvia Singer, there's no way jews accept Christianity, in effect Christians should believe only in Go-d without involving a human as a God, it's called: idol worship

[JonGreen]

God doesn't need you.
God loves you.
God wants you.
To say that God needs you is to say He cannot do without you.
God didn't need Esther to save the Jews from King Ahasuerus and Haman.
But God loved Esther and wanted her to be part of His plan.

[CPHSDC]

You impress me, not an easy thing to do. Shared.

[ThePsychoguy]

From a Christian theological POV the point of living after salvation is sanctification, or theosis. That is, becoming more Godly and developing virtues.

So, the two religions are actually quite similar in the end, even though the focus might seem different.

[Noorutska]

Hi I'm a Christian and I just want to say: you ask all the questions I asked so many times especially during difficult times when feeling there's no hope anymore.. But my salvation isn't the point, if it was all Christians would just die the very second they accept Jesus. The point is the Gospel and all of those who haven't heard it (or have but left it or being lukewarm). That's why Paul said "to die is gain", the race is over. Here before the finish line all the questions will rise, doubt, fear, all of it and with God we will stand through them as winners! PS. I appreciate your work so much, thank you for all you're doing and may God bless you

Oh just watched few more minutes and you actually said pretty much what I was trying to say. To bring heaven down by our actions.