Karl Popper on Socrates vs Plato (1979)

#Popper #Socrates #Plato

[brianhatano]

People are missing Popper’s point that this is not about personal modesty, but about the tradition of criticism that brought all knowledge progress whenever people have made progress, whether practical, artistic, political, or scientific.

[andoreanesnomeo]

Who can argue that intellectual modesty is not an important virtue in clear thinking? I mean, the alternative is in fact a form of willful blindness. We would say that such a person does not know their limits.

[HalTuberman]

I'm not sure I agree with Popper fully here. In Plato's defense I want to say that what Plato meant was that knowledge which had been hard-earned through the dialectic which always begins with a fundamental recognition of one's own ignorance was the better knowledge. In the Republic, Plato does plenty of mocking of the poets' and politicians' "knowledge." After all, what separates the knowledge of the poets from that of philosophers in Plato's eyes? The dialectical method, right?
But, at the same time, I also see what Popper sees. An abandonment of intellectual modesty in Plato.

[FressiaSato]

It does not seem to me that this definition makes a complete judgment about the divine oracle. However, what is given by God also has significance in spiritual guidance. How can Socrates say that he knows nothing while others do not know what they know? We do not ourselves know why we have doubts about our reasoning about the presence of wisdom in others and why we do not see anything unusual about it. It would be strange, however, to see various forms of knowledge if Socrates was in three or four different forms. I would immediately switch between them.

[JB-qtwo]

Popper's axe to grind with Plato seems to be Plato's desire to form a hierarchical society that seeks to transcend the flaws in human nature, thereby collectively bringing about a higher state of existence. This is the fundamental driving force behind much of Western Civilization. Popper of course, views this as source of oppression. Popper is much more insidious and influential than many realize. I believe his ideas have been taken to an extreme. Any existing hierarchy, whether it be socially constructed, or derived from a state of nature, is an enemy of the open society. You can see the influences of Marx, but the methodology in how he implements liberal ideology is much different from traditional Marxists.

[kishoridesai]

When the objective of knowledge is solving problems what is one expected to do knowing "he knows nothing" or his knowledge will always be incomplete?
He has to act one way or the other. In many instances the decision is urgent. The judgement every wise man is in the light of his wisdom which cannot be infinite.
The fact that in democracy people elect practical politicians rather than philosophers to take decisions on their behalf shows they respect engineers more than scientists when problems are to be solved as early as possible.

[yopvnit]

Popper elucidates a very important aspect to knowledge, , which is NOW (past 20+ yrs) has been taken up by the so called science of The KnowledgeS and The IgnoranceS. THis world is in a state of violent flux, each day is different from the prevoius, Science has to be humbled and subit to what I propose is The Spirit Of Gnosis. Gnosis comes from the ternal spirit thus is the only science that will lead man out of this epoch of total annihilation
I am of Gnosis
Paul
New Orleans

[puddintame]

In a century they will think us insane,
How could they think such things inane,
Then say in a fancy drawl,
They finally know it all,
Proving mankind hasn't and won't change.

[carlosenriquegonzalez-isla]

Coming from a guy that was not particularly modest…

[buzzkill]

pooper's hatred for Plato (and Socrates as well) is more than obvious.