I liked Deadhouse Gates LESS than Gardens of the Moon... | Malazan journey part 2

Hey nerds! It's finally time to review Malazan fan-favorite Deadhouse Gates. While I absolutely LOVED the ending of this novel, I struggled with reading it more than I did with Gardens, meaning that Gardens of the Moon edges it out. Tell me your thoughts on my favorite characters, the parts I loved, and the parts I didn't like so much.

Chapters
00:00 - General review (non-spoiler)
01:47 - What I liked
07:04 - What I didn't like
10:19 - Favorite characters
04:58 - My fav characters
11:34 - Some thoughts on re-readability
12:42 - What's next

Socials

[francb]

some thoughts:

-one of Erikson's best abilities as a writer is giving you seemingly reprehensible characters, getting you to detest them.. and eventually challenging you to find compassion for them anyway. This is a huge thematic element of the series.

-Much of the hype and praise for the Chain of Dogs does come from the ending but a lot of it also comes from the people that actually enjoy military fantasy and loved it from page 1.

-Even without re-reads, there is a noticeable pattern of people's appreciation for the book growing over time with distance and reflection.

[blacknbluecollarreader]

WOW!! I am a huge Felisin supporter and what you said hit the nail on the head!!! You are so right, I do believe if we experienced a little more of her inter dialog or struggle, that more people would have connected with Felisin. Those who have a good grasp of the effects of trauma tend to have understanding as to her actions. However, the author could have assisted in making this more evident. She experience Stockholm Syndrome, Opiate addiction etc. but I feel Erikson didn't touch on these things as much. Excellent video.

[SouravUldyssian]

The Malazan world is built in a way where there are multiple ways a person can get resurrected and its built in the lore of the world, but it really varies and no two persons get resurrected the same way. So there are people who come back from the dead. BUT its NEVER without consequences. Deaths always matter even if some of them come back, because when they are back they are almost always fundamentally changed, and its never like, "he was never dead, just move on as if nothing happened" : it always affects everything the person goes through later and they are never the same. Ganoes in GOTM was the only minor exception but he hadn't really died.
Also those who say DG is their favorite of the Malazan series, almost all of them say that after a reread, myself among them. On a reread you can grasp hold of the small moments much better, and elevates this book. On first read people may love it more than GOTM, but its usually not the favorite.

[johnd]

Cannot wait for your Memories of Ice review!

[jimbrown]

Speaking as a die-hard Malazan fan, one who has red the books many times, I think you are absolutely correct in thinking the LOVE for Deadhouse Gates comes from re-reading it. As you said, even though the surprise/shock factor is gone, you see all the "slow parts" in a whole new light and the sense of gravitas for the ending only becomes that much more impactful.

I am excited for you to continue your Malazan journey and look forward to your insights on the rest of the series.

[michaelfeeney]

Saving this to my Malazan playlist! For whenever I get to the series.

[RedFuryBooks]

I'm glad you ended up liking it in the end! I think your assessment of Felisin is spot on - it's one thing to know that we should show compassion for her, but another thing to actually feel it.

[slidenaway]

Okay proper comment now that I’ve watched 😃

Totally understand your “complaints, ” not much to be done there. You did a great job highlighting that history/memory theme, with those quotes tying into the ending. Really really getting the message there

I also loved the shoutout to Mappo saving Bent and Roach. Like you said, the little moments of humanity contrasting to the large scale destructive acts. And if you recall the scene with Coltaine and the sapper Captain Mincer, and Duiker’s “sleight of hand” thing… Mappo saving the dogs ties into that as well

And yes based on everything you’ve said, you will absolutely love Memories of Ice. It’s a fan favorite for a reason, but you in particular will love it. Looking forward to continuing the journey with you!!

[bookswithnate]

Great pick up on the themes! Definitely agree on the importance of memory and history and how they play out in this book with these characters. Especially the importance of where they are and the Chain of Dogs journey. Great review and looking forward to more!

[duffypratt]

I often see people saying how great the Malazan endings are, and complaining that it took so long to get there. I think the depth of his set-ups are one of the reasons the endings work so well. As for rereads, I’ve read the series three times now (almost, I’m on Dust of Dreams for this re-read). I have been amazed at how I keep thinking different things are the strongest aspects of the books on the rereads. For me, Deadhouse Gates stands up extremely well on re-read, especially when you understand where much of these things are going (like with Kalam and Laseen, or Icarium and Mappo, for example).

[gavinrbeckett]

Completely agree that DHG works really well on a re-read, good intuition on your part there - I speed through the battle scenes and just experience them as punctuation on the way to the tragic ending. Also love all your high points - those are the same things I love about the book. And yes, of course Quick Ben steals the book in his two page appearance 😂

[Johanna_reads]

Yes to everything you shared in this excellent review! I felt the same exact way in preferring Gardens over Deadhouse Gates. I loved your quote selection and can’t help but agree with your criticisms. Only difference is that I do love Erikson’s battle scenes, but I also suspect this book will hit 10x harder upon reread. I hope you enjoy Memories of Ice, and I always love hearing your insights! ❤

[esteban]

Yay glad to see you continued. This is probably the one I'm looking forward to rereading the most. Mainly since the first time I read it I was expecting Coltraine and the wickins to be the "bad guys" due to the pov we are in when we first see them. So will be good to see them in better light on reread. Felisin chapters are quite tough. But always happy when get back to Fiddler or Kalam ones.

Back to the rest of the bridge burners for book 3 at least

[alder]

It's ok not to like something that much when other people told you will love it.
I do like militaristic large battle scenes, I like reading about them, imagining them, and I'm very engaged when I'm reading those parts of books. But that's not the reason why I like DG so much. I don't know why. I like Memory of Ice much more, and some later books as well, but DG kind of steals the high place in my liking list I did like it right after reading it, the ending was shockingly brilliant, but I wasn't that taken by it like I was after finishing the whole series - and I've never reread Malazan yet. The more Malazan I've read, the more I appreciated DG. Why, no idea. It's just good. Probably it’s because of how everything was just in the right place, and made that ending so much more impactful, which gave my mind the idea of what to expect from Malazan Book of the Fallen. This for sure made me love later books much more.
I think you don't have to worry about Duiker's end, it won't get cheapend, I think it just got stronger instead. Death is different in the Malazan world. It's not as permanent as you would expect it to be, but it still is chained by consequences and changes.But this is a world where gods walk among people, Hood is there for a reason, and the tragedy of characters that died never gets lessened, in many cases it gets more heartbreaking for me.

[mikesbookreviews]

The first half of DHG I definitely wasn't feeling it. But the second half really clicked for me mostly because of the friendship between Mappo and Icarium. But most people seem to be either Genebackis or Seven Cities with which continent/cast they prefer. I also find the Felisin hate weird. Especially from Erikson himself, ha ha. He puts her through a grinder in this book.

[zan]

Sounds about right, I had a lot of trouble with DHG the first time around (and loved it the second) - I think that everyone's experience with Malazan is unique enough it's probably a fool's game to try to guess which specific book people will love. DHG & MoI get most of the pressure, and Malazan fans are super bad about it. For some, they're legit the best, but... if you're enjoying the books in general, don't worry, the one you feel that way about will come XD

[meris]

Expectations are so important, I went into Deadhouse Gates hearing little but that it was divisive and Coltaine was badass so I ended up surprised by how good it was and loving it. Plus I have a bias for battles. Whereas I went into Memories Of Ice hearing it was the best book in the series and just found it fine outside of standout moments. The same happened with Wheel Of Time where I heard Shadow Rising was the best book and again was a little underwhelmed.

[Cyriax]

First, excellent intro. Way to embrace the “how do you pronounce Malazan” thing. Second, agree with everything thing you said. I have also only read the first two books and liked GOTM more for the same reasons you stated.

[SennyGamingHQ]

i remember reading GotM and thinking "Holy fuck did I even understand 20% of what was happening?" but I kept seeing rave reviews and people saying "if you stick with it, it'll be so worth it."

I'm REALLY glad I stuck with it. It has become my favorite series. Deadhouse Gates again felt long, and I felt lost, but I kept pushing. Chain of Dogs is what snared me to the series. After I read it I could really see the potential of this series. And I was not disappointed, each book just got better, and better.

The most satisfying parts of this series for me, is having mysteries planted in the first few books answered later on down the line with such satisfying ways.

The thing that resonates with me in relation to the chain of dogs (apart from the ending cuz duh) is how I felt exhausted for the characters constantly pushing forward and fighting off assaults. Their numbers dwindling day by day, all in the name of protecting their charge. That's why the ending felt SO impactful is because I FELT for the characters having gotten to the exterior of the walls, just to be killed off RIGHT THERE. They were SO CLOSE and at the time it felt like all that struggle was for nothing. That's why it was so heartbreaking and as the reader there's a feeling of their story is not forgotten because it lives on in us. (sounds cheesy i know but i couldnt think of another way to say it)

[turnpikenorth]

You’re 100% spot on about being more enjoyable the second go around