Deadhouse Gates | Spoiler Book Chat

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[tuffguy]

The ending with Coltaine was such a gut punch. Absolutely crushing. I had to set my book down and go for a walk. Also, the Chain of Dogs is one of the best sections of a fantasy novel I've ever read.

[Gabo]

I love Deadhouse Gates, it's my all time favorite book! The ending made me cry for like 3 days, which pretty much never happens. Coltaine was such a good character. To me this is the best epic fantasy series.

[jocelynbastien]

Just finished reading. Special shout out to the bossy little yapping lapdog during the Chain of Dogs who's saved by Mappo near the end! Great honest review now on to Memories of Ice for me.

[dinneyw]

A mean Malazan fan here :p I really like the spoiler reviews, when you get multiple books into a series I've never found any value in a non spoiler booktube review, whether I'm a fan of the series or have read the books or not! So while they get no views, this non viewer enjoys hearing your more detailed thoughts! Hearing you talk smartly about the books is why I've subbed and watched a lot more of your content and the spoiler reviews give you a better chance to do that I think! I think all "fandoms" are problematic. The books turn off a lot due to the mystery, puzzle and confusion of them so if you get them then some people like to lord that over others. Kinda sad really considering they're tales about empathy and compassion... Those people think they got them but they really really didn't!


Questions with answers from the Book.


Felisin and Sha'ik. While there's no definitive answer on who COULD become Sha'ik there are the options of girls in the camp, so Dryjhna is picky about who they choose and YOU nail the reason why she chooses/is chosen by Felisin in your video. Felisin is willing to give herself up. And she does what it takes to survive. Her force of will is incredible and she's capable of great hatred. I find Felisin fascinating in Deadhouse Gates, you go from concern to respect to hatred, to despising her, to not caring about her and maybe you come out the other side or you don't! Contrasted with Duiker, who you don't care about, until you really do, I love the ability of Erikson to make you care and change your mind about characters!


Kalam and the Empress. She is using magic to talk through a corpse. Kalam makes a joke with Minala about talking to a mortal woman more or less so it's up to you if you think he's talking about her speaking for the Empire or if he worked out the trick. Minala asks the same question you do. All this way just for that? He tells her that she answered with the voice of an Empire not an Empress and that's the thing that convinces him to turn away. No excuses, just information, and he doesn't really have an answer for that. You'll find out later if what Laseen says pan(nion)s out and if Kalam changes his mind.


Memories of Ice has most of the other people from Gardens so you'll get your wish on most of them, Mappo and Icarium come back in Book 4 so you have to wait a little to see where they go next!


I disagree and I like that we don't get to see inside certain characters heads in the first couple of books. You get other people's perspectives and the consequences for their actions but you only get glimpses at their reasons. Whether it's Rake or Coltaine or the Empress seeing them from the outside and speculating is more interesting than knowing even if it's sometimes frustrating! Having to judge vital people on what other people say and think is something I enjoy.


There's definitely ups and downs with the Malazan series. And it's too long with lots of unnecessary bits! But I'd prefer that roller coaster ride and parts like the Fall, Mincer's demotion, the sacrifice of the horse by Nil and Nether, and Mappo and Icarium's friendship, the children are dying quote and more over many better constructed books which never truly stir your heart. His writing style has pros and cons as you say. There are times when he makes choices which aren't good and I think you pick a good example of that with the character perspectives. I love solving puzzles, but working out who is thinking isn't one I'm interested in solving! Rereads are so good, because you have the trust that things come together, you don't ever feel lost, and you know the payoff is worth it! I read to find out what happens so I tend to skim a lot in most books, to work out what happens in Malazan I had to slow down, so that was jarring to me as well the first read through!


What do you think about Mappo's decision to save Icarium from the Azath house? What do you think about Shadowthrone and Cotillion and their schemes? Does it bother you in books if people come back from the dead or are reborn?

[timholland]

Great overview. Just finished this book and really enjoyed it. Definitely feeling the same way in terms of confusion and writing styles. Looking forward to the rest of the series.

[andrewmmbogori]

"Am I supposed to know what's going on?" Hahahaha, welcome to Malazan!

[jasonvizcarra]

I also struggled with book and enjoyed GOTM much more. What this book improved upon was the emotional depth.

[mrgauth]

Not being able to get these in Trade paperbacks is Why I went ebook. Supposedly one of the greatest series of all time and no matching sets and only mass market garbage. Hate that. Done ranting.

[shaunyboy]

Oh, honestly this was a breath of fresh air. A Malazan SPOILER chat! Most folks just do a weird gloss over (which as others have said is a bit frustrating because Malazan's best talked about with spoilers).

First off some of the things you've got questions about and want to know more about are definitely explored in Memories of Ice (Ascendants, Anomander Rake, Dancer and Kellenved, all that good stuff).

In regards to Kalam's ending I think it was more to show obsession and how focusing on one person as your enemy/cause of all your woes can blind you to the reality of the world. Things are complicated, people have to makes choices and could he honestly say if Daseem Ultor had been sitting on the throne instead of Laseen that he'd have done a better job than the Empress? Blaming the Empress for everything could be seen as an easy way out and I think Steven Erikson was subverting the 'Dark Queen' trope that you see a lot in fantasy as well. And yes, the Empress wasn't actually there she was using a spell to project an image herself/her voice (protecting herself in case she couldn't talk Kalam out of it).

A lot of the boring bits become more relevant to things later on in the series (and if you ever get round to doing a re-read a lot of the things that seem unimportant you'll realise are actually REALLY important). The books are a bit like a detective story in that regard. Going back over old cases and finding clues you missed the first time round.

Memories of Ice is regarded as most folk's favourite Malazan book and it carries on the story from Gardens of the Moon with Dujek Onearm, Quick Ben, Paran and all of them. It has some of the best battles and imagery I've ever seen in a fantasy novel.

If you got any more questions or whatnot I'd just pin a comment up top and I'm sure folks would be more than happy to help you out with answers.

[drawyrral]

I wish I could read it again for the first time. I've read them 3 times now.

[hadesoner]

What a ending man. Finished this today. Moving into Memories of Ice tonight. I overall preferred GOTM, but I still loved this book, I found this book grew on me as I read on.

[DukeusMostchillius]

After finishing Memories of Ice i get the sense that Deadhouse Gates and Memories of Ice are very complementary. to the point that if you read a chapter from each from beginning to end you would get a much better story overall. There are many times in Memories of Ice that allude to things that happen in Deadhouse Gates A few chapters after the actual event and its would shed light while its still somewhat fresh in the mind and its very hard to keep the nuance of Malazan fresh in your mind especially when your try to get through 100+ pages a day. there is a lot to do with the God Fener that would have been much more impactful if id read these two books in tandem. It also would have broken up the trudging nature of the exodus of the Chain of Dog. I agree that Gardens of the Moon was a better experience overall. it felt like a burden we were fit to bare while Deadhouse Gates felt like a burden we were tasked with moving along by any means necessary. kinda like we're Atlus\Sisyphus if that makes sense. Part of me wants to take some time away from Malazan just due to the weight and density of it but knowing that House of Chains the conclusion of the plot threads started in Deadhouse Gates and Memories of Ice will probably see me buckle down and get through at least that last one before i break off.

~~

So i Started House of Chains. one of my major gripes about malazan is that at some point he just stops giving anyone faces or voices.. it like.. here is a list of incomprehensible names spewing cryptic and exhusting dialogue.. good luck.. at some point every one just looks and sounds exactly like me.. thats not good for immersion.. not good at all..

[sd]

I just fished my first reread (I read it 10 years ago), definitely better on reread. Empress Lassen was not in the room + she managed to convince Kalam she is either “free”of the charges and/or she did what had to be done for the greater good.

[sd]

1- did you catch the name of Duiker’s “unnamed marine”?
2- did you catch who the Ragstoper captain and his link to Stormy (one of the three sailor left on the Silanda?

[andrewstrongman]

Spot on, Brittany! GotM is a great book although it frustrates many readers who expect to be spoon-fed from the start. The later books, IMO, spend too much time building up to pivotal events. The pathos is perhaps laid on a bit thick sometimes, although one of my favorite quotes from any book I've ever read is "Children are dying". Brutal as the Malazan world is, the underlying message is one of unity.

[overnightgrowth]

Ah yes someone who's like me and frustrated about the spines not lining up XDXD

[peterg]

Regarding Kalam and the empress.... I feel like it was a bit of both. He realized she wasn't actually there in physical form, so he played along with her.

[leighstevens]

I've read the actual Book of the Fallen series 3 times, the two books of collected tales of Bauchelain and Korbal Broach twice (which are necromancers that you have not yet met) twice, and the follow up series of seven books by Ian C Esslemont (who co-built the world) once. And I am still not fully versed in the world. I have gone through the two books of the Kharkanas trilogy twice, but Steven has moved back the release of the third to concentrate on the trilogy of Karsa Orlong, of which the first novel is released later this year.

[ahadmohammed]

I first read this series when it was being published

I just started re-reading again and so far I am feeling exactly the same as you. I loved Gardens of the Moon. This book was ok but it took me a long time to get into it

The book was ok but have its good points

[anangryscorpion]

So glad you got into spoilers here, i really feel like Malazan is best talked about with spoilers included. I know it can be super frustrating at times, being so totally lost and feeling like Erikson is just making things up as he goes. You really really just have to put your trust in him and try not to worry overly much about being confused etc. I promise, once/if you finish the series everything will make complete sense though the answers your seeking make take a while in their turning up.
Malazan can be super exhausting to read just by the nature of how its written, take your time; Malazan fatigue is a very real thing. Having said that though its also my favourite series of all time, the back half of the series is jaw-droppingly good.