John Gray: Thoughts after liberalism

In our disrupted age, as Russia and China continue to rise, the West faces the return of destabilising dynamics in geopolitical power. Philosopher, and author of The New Leviathans, John Gray seeks to disabuse us of the liberal certainties that have distorted the Western mind and calls for us to return to realism. He joined Freddie Sayers in conversation at the UnHerd Club.

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[davidotness]

"Destroyed the tyranny of Gadaffi?" Libya was always ruled via the consent of the twelve or so tribes who gave him his power originally---at least to my knowledge. Libyans enjoyed the highest standard of living on the African continent with the most generous societal benefits in the Western or Eastern world. That kind of 'tyranny' is sorely missed in that now devastated country of slave trading and profusion of refugees. Our notion of what is right and correct is far from always right for everybody.

[maggen_me]

It is always calming to hear a sensible voice.

[fahdhussein]

Doubt i could have picked something better to watch in the middle of the current shitshow around us. Thank you for your time Mr Gray. I look forward to hearing more from you in the future.

[joiedevie]

One of the most rational discussions on every single topic discussed. Bravo, Freddie, for this broadcast!

[isaiahbasaldua]

a profound talk about the current state of affairs in our society. I think this leaves alot to think about for sure. One of our days most objective nuanced open minded thinkers. Definitely a good presentation hoping to read his books to better understand him soon.

[johanngizurarson]

The problem of cancel culture is far older than 5-10 years, it is much older. In fact, in my country if you were a know Marxist in the 60s, your career would suffer, you would be given as good bank loans and promotion would be out of reach. It was an anti-meritocracy. Cancel culture does not come from above (top down) but it is rather paralell or comes from bottom-up.
If I work in a pharma company and I see no reason why a particular subgroups should be vaccinated I should have legimated fear to be layed off. I would self-censor in order not to get layed-off/cancelled by the company. It is a time for the right-wing to acknowlegde that!

[americanexpat]

As a 65 year old guy, let me give you a perspective. We had 3 main TV stations and radio growing up. The big change now is that you are inundated with media all day long and it distorts your perception of what is really happening and inflames your emotions. If you do a complete media detox and turn it off for a month and only talk to real people you will never hear about most of the things talked about in this video. Real people in real life don’t care about these things. It’s the media that amps people up

[stevenrichardson]

I thought i disliked John Gray, his ideas don't align with my own. I watched this and thought he was fascinating . I will read the books of his i own again. This is why we should keep listening.

[domm]

“To be able to talk freely without being afraid.”
This resonated. I see this more and more (especially in the workplace).

[dougmartin]

Professor Gray attributes to British soldiers what American soldiers captured by Germany actually did- led by a Sargent, since the Germans separated enlisted men from their officers in the attempt to better control them. The Sargent, asked by the camp Commandant to identify those soldiers of Jewish faith refused, but when pressed said “I am.” His men followed suit and the German Commandant got nowhere.

Credit where credit’s due.Sargent’s are the backbone of the US Army, and for good reason.

[cosmaracorosu]

What a refreshing and lucid talk, thank you!

[ajs]

I have a theory as to why illiberalism is on the rise in Western countries: it's actually a form of revenge on society by disappointed people who expected to have important roles in life but haven't been successful in that aim. They were constantly given the impression when they were growing up that they would easily move into important positions in life, and when this didn't happen - probably because so many other people had precisely the same idea so that there simply wasn't room for all of them at the top - they've decided to get their own back, and the way a lot of them have decided to do this is by trying to trash liberal society. It's a nihilistic attitude that they have, almost saying: if I can't have what I expected to have, no-one else should be able to either. (To clarify, I'm talking about the old non-Woke liberal society, not the new Woke liberal one).

[martinjohnson]

Rieff died only a couple of years ago; was married to Susan Sontag. Brilliant guy and “Triumph of the Therapeutic” was and still is an incredible read almost 60 years later.

[marccas]

In the 1960s and 70s and 80s when watching say a sitcom or drama. When someone would say "can i sit here?" The repost would be "it's a free country" i literally have not heard that phrase said in the last 30 years on anything. I think we can sense that if the "feeling" of freedom that was prevalent in the past was always a pretence, all pretence is now gone.

[robertwatson]

We have to push back against curtailment of freedom of speech if nothing else.

[reader]

I was finally happy to hear Gray say that he doesn’t know something, that is, the history of the Nazis and Bulgaria. You can read it in a book called Beyond Hitler’s Reach. Basically, Bulgarian civil society, for reasons to some degree explained in the book, rejected Nazi demands to turn over their friends and neighbors.

[KR-hemm]

Great discussion thanks! On the subject of EVs and the likelihood (or not!) that they will ever dominate, I heard an energy industry insider in the UK remark that even if we did succeed in putting in enough charging points to allow all cars to be electric, the grid would collapse under the demand as we don't have the capacity to generate enough electricity. In spite of all the blah blah about net zero and phasing out ICE vehicles in the near future, none of our uniquely gifted leading class seem to have much to say about this little problem...

[alexgibson]

Excellent. John’s excellent 1986 primer on liberalism (back when he was more optimistic) changed my outlook entirely, but he sold me so well that I didn’t want to read his later work. But this subject is the one that captures me the most these days. The task of treating people equally who want to treat others unequally, what to do?

[festivetosho]

Sr. Gray doesn't seem to understand what scotus did with Roe v. Wade. They punted! The ball moves to the states. This doesn't destroy the American project. If anything, it reduces fragility.

[elrevesyelderecho]

9:54 Hannah Arendt explain it long time ago