Did Jesus Fulfil Old Testament Prophecy? Dr. Jonathan McLatchie vs. Tom Jump

[drackoni-han]

I read the Harry Potter series and conducted an extensive Bayes probability analysis on it.

Turns out it's extremely probable that Harry Potter encountered Voldemort

[josuepena]

This is so embarrassing. Not only is your whole calculation of evidence proven false over and over, painfully, throughout the debate, but also every time you're shown the objectively failed prophecies you say "That one is just... not fulfilled yet" AND WITH A STRAIGHT FACE LMFAO

[luX]

And I thought Tjump talks fast... Jesus Christ, I didn't understand 99% of what was said (speed + mumbo-jumbo word salad + weird mic + my incompetence, in that order).

[AsixA]

I'll never understand why people post video debates of themselves getting destroyed.

[BrianNeil]

Jonathan, read 'When Prophecy Fails' Leon Festinger, Henry W Riecken, Stanley Schachter, a classic isight into the human condition, even after prophesy fails, people will still cling to or try to justify it's complete failure.

[jennifer]

You’d think a decent professional would communicate his doubts about Dr Ehrman’s work via email....not on social media, deliberately as an attempt to embarrass. You’ve cheapened yourself JMcL.

[nomen]

Hinduism predicts the age of the earth? That’s laughable. The mention of the age of the earth is so vague so you can literally get away by saying the age of the earth was a 1000 years. He needs to provide what the source actually says.

[BigDongWong]

Listening to one of Jonathans debates years ago is why I became an atheist.

[cralanceragster]

The probability I understand what he is talking about is 0% .

[HarryNicNicholas]

the powerpoint presentation = i can't remember my own position.

what if any and every prophesy in the bible was true? what purpose do they serve? is there a prophesy of when we will make contact with aliens or perfect fusion? bible prophesies are entertainment and as much use as astrology.

apologetics is trying to convince someone that a fantasy is real, debating apologetics is trying to convince someone they are being foolish.
1:11:00 so what mclatchie is saying is, i know my theory is wrong but i like it and i'm sticking with it.

[stephengibbins]

Anything is possible your magical universe Dr McLatchie.

[scottwills]

Ugh, prophesy, the weakest apologetic. The Gospels aren't evidence of fulfilled prophesy, they're evidence that the authors new the Old Testament. It's just fan fiction.

[derjogderjog]

Whenever someone talks as much and fast as Jonathan they would be better off being a car salesman than a scholar in my opinion. He actually said that the spread of Christianity is PROOF FOR ITS TRUTH. That is like saying the spread of Nazism was also something good. To me, the Bible is full of circular stories, and stories to build Jesus up to something he is not. Why hasn't Jesus returned ???? remember he said he would in 40 years ?? and that did not happen...isn't that one item enough for him to be wrong to show he cannot be son of god ?? Why don't any of these angels or prophets or god himself ever make an apparence anymore. In the old Testament they did all the time... Are u all sure these religious guys are not hanging on to these to sell books, etc...

[calebjore]

I haven't watched all of the debate, but so far, TJump's epistemology is muddled at best. He's heavily reliant on rhetoric and snark, not facts and evidence. Well done, Dr. McLatchie.

[weirdwilliam]

Your scholarship, terminology, and arguments are pseudoscience. Everyone who hasn’t already presupposed your conclusion (and apparently become emotionally dependent on it) can immediately recognize this and quickly identify the flaws and fallacies. A real god wouldn’t need apologists. Stop wasting your mind and your life, for our sake but especially for yours.

[cygnusustus]

Nope. It was not TJump, but you who does not understand Bayesian analysis Mr. McLatchie.

1. Death at Passover (Corinthians 5:7)
This is not a messianic prophecy anywhere in the Old Testament

2. The crucifixion (Psalm 22:12-18)
Psalm 22:12-18 does not mention a messiah and is not a prophecy. Therefore it cannot be a messianic prophecy.

3. Jesus birth in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2)
Jesus was from Nazareth, not Bethlehem, and considering that the claim of citizens returning to their birthplaces for a nationwide census is known to be false, it is doubtful that the tale of Jesus being born in Bethlehem is true. The fabricated census appears to have been concocted specifically to associate a Nazarene with Bethlehem after the fact.
The verse claims the prophesied individual will be ruler of Israel. Jesus never ruled Israel.
Jesus did not fulfil this prophecy.
As far as the Baye's factor goes, McLatchie calculates based on the presumption that Jesus was the messiah. In fact, the probability of SOMEONE being born in Bethlehem was, for all practical purposes, 100%. This renders Jesus' birth in Bethlehem useless for calculation.

4. The spread of Christianity. (Isaiah 49:6)
Isaiah 49 does not refer to a messiah and is not a prophecy.

5. Jesus was Jewish. (Deuteronomy 18:15)
McLatchie mistakenly calculates the Bayesian significance of this completely independently of claim 3 (Jesus was born in Bethlehem) when obviously these probabilities are highly correlated.
Again, McLatchie presumes the Jesus was in fact the messiah in his calculations. The actual counter probability that SOMEONE Jewish would be born is 1.

6. The destruction of the temple. (Daniel 9:24-26)
Daniel is specific about the time frame in which the event would occur, and it did not occur in that time frame. Jesus lived long after the prophecy expired.

[MoxxMix]

Jonathan, false Dr. is and old child.

[worthingskepticsinthepub]

The organiser requests that this video NOT be shared!

[francescoantonio]

Sorry Dr. Jon but you're only convincing to the simple minded. Very weak arguments.

[HopeBloomMusic]

God is not a mass murderer. God justly eliminates evil people, after warning them for hundreds of years. That is also merciful to all who would have been victimized by those evil ones. It's, again, also merciful to any person under the age of accountability, who will undoubtedly be taken into Heaven. Killing is not murdering, there is a difference.