I was WRONG about the Primordial One | Genshin Impact Theory

This is a speculation and theory video about a discussion we had relating to Primordial One, Descenders, The Second Who Came, and the Gnosis. Maybe I am overthinking this... Or maybe I'm right, by being wrong...?

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[_Wei]

Damn I didn’t think of the comma explanation for second throne of heavens came lmao.

my thought process was basically the war of vengeance mentioned in Neuvillette voice line confirms that there are 3 descenders present at that time.

And this war HAS to corresponds with the war in the funerary year because the scale of destruction is the same.

There is only 1 war in this period of time at this scale of destruction, and NIBELUNG was the one that CAUSED this war.

Therefore the war in funerary year consist of 3 descenders, ( classifying Nibelung as a descender )

so I initially thought second throne of heavens doesn’t necessarily mean second DESCENDER, because my hypothesis was the Shades just came to Teyvat and got captured without a war. ( like the twin got capture by the unknown god in less than 5 minutes without a whole war) i just thought they descended as a group and immediately got captured by P.O and they don’t actually have the “throne/authority” to be called the second thrones of heavens.

So I assumed the second thrones of heaven is just Nibelung, because he is trying to reclaim the thrones so somehow he is the third descender but referee as “second thrones of heavens” because he was going for the throne

BUT UR COMMA EXPLANATION ACTUALLY EXPLAINS IT SO MUCH BETTER LOL

[frankstolz]

Slightly further down in Before Sun and Moon is the paragraph "The Second Year of Sun and Moon". There it is clearly stated that the people of Enkanomiya thought "the Primordial One must have defeated the Second Who Came". Since they were banned from returning to the surface - until Orobashi created Watatsumi - they had no way of knowing who actually won. One of them might have subdued the other which lead to them cooperating after. Or they stopped the war to fight against a common enemy. At this point we know even less about the second descender than the third.

[geovanagama]

The way I understood is that:
1. Primordial one arrived to teyvat fought the Dragon king.
2. Dragon king lost, to get revenge he go's outside of teyvat and get contaminated by forbidden knowledge.
3. Before the war of vengeance of the dragons, the second who came descended to teyvat (just like the twins).
4. Some time passed after the second arrived, and the war of vengeance of the dragons began.
5. The primordial and the second fought the dragons together and defeated the Dragon king.
6. Teyvat was in collapse. During that time, the third descender arrived (with his agreement or not), and they transformed him in the gnoses to save the rest of teyvat (while the rest of the planet became the Dark sea.)

[brainrot]

I think hoyo definitely try to misdirect us that's why the confusion. The main conflict in Teyvat which we wasn't sure about before (primodial one versus someone who destroyed the heavens) is basically just the same war from the start: dragons versus gods/heavenly principles. I dont think dragon king is third descender though I mean if he was then wouldn't Skirk just tell Neuvillette it was the king since she knew he is a sovereign from his "power smell". He wasn't even sure what a descender means.

[FaiGal]

Tbh I actually like it when I’m completely wrong about Genshin lore because that means the writers effectively threw us off and I’m impressed that it makes a lot of sense. The closer we get to Khaenriah, the more it becomes as heavily sci-fi as the Honkai universe.

[Shiro-the-Hero]

Keep in mind that it's "and one who came after", not "and the one who came after", meaning that the Second Who Came may not have been the one who helped the Primordial One create the Gnoses. It's just one tiny word, but it makes all the difference ^^' According to the wording that we have, it's even possible that the Third Descender helped the Primordial One... or maybe it wasn't a Descender, but someone else who came from beyond. There are too many unknowns at the moment.

[Evitzeoshowerthoughts]

this makes the title "2nd throne of heaven" make SOOO much more sense. Because they were friends, they both had thrones

[doombringerson]

There's a book in the Narzissenkreuz worl quest you can look at that states that a Descender isn't just someone from outside Teyvat, but someone with the power to change the world. The simplest answer to why the Abyss sibling isn't a Descender is that they don't have enough power. That might be why they turned to the Abyss, just like the Dragon King did.

[saskiamel]

I'm not sure about second throne and primodrial one fighting. BUT in Neuvillettes story it does not say "the usurper and the second who came" but it says "the usurper and one who came after ". ONE who came AFTER. It does not specify which one of those who came after the primordial one. So it could also be, that the third descender helped creating the gnoses and sacrificed themselves. In this case the war between the second and the first still could be possible.

I had the same thoughts as you but then someone pointed that out for me and it does make sense.

[NuriumAstrum]

I think "As it was in the world's creation" explains alot. It literally means "As how it all begun", the feud between dragons and the primordial one, rekindled.

[spieds]

Just to add a bit that only clarifies a bit on the wording, it's the EN translation that says "the one who came after". From me checking, in CN and RU translations it's more of "Another latecomer"(CN) and "Another alien from outside" (RU). So not only is it not hinting at second, it never even talks about descender, just aliens, who we know now don't have to be descenders just bc they're from outside of Teyvat. It could still be second, but it's not the only option and nothing specifically points at them in those translations. It could be anybody from outside of Teyvat

[ahamilaag]

The reason why the twin isn't a descender was already explained this update.

It's in a paper that says not every outlander is a descender and that they need a will that rivals an entire world.

[yamada_rob]

I still don't like the idea that Nibelung is the Third Descender because, for me, no matter how you slice it, Nibelung was "contaminated" with forbidden knowledge and if his remains were used to make the Gnosis, the Gnosis would still be to dangerous to be manipulated by anyone. Even if the other two Descenders managed to change it into something else, like that elemental being from Apep did. More importantly, if the two Descenders managed to "purify" the forbidden knowledge into something safe, why didn't save Sumeru from Eleazar and the Withering earlier? It feels too much of a stretch to me to rely on the fact that Nibelung, an original being from Teyvat, getting power from beyond was enough to make him a Descender...
ALSO the notes in the Narzissenkreuz Ordo states that "That is what I seek, the way to become just such a will, one that can protect the world, sustain the world, destroy the world, AND create the world." not OR. So, to make themselves actual descenders one must have a will that rivals the entire world and being capable of doing ALL FOUR of the characteristic stated in the note, not at least one of them.

[racool]

So archons do grant people visions, but they don't control who gets it.

That still doesn't explain why electro visions stopped being handed out during the Sakoku Decree.

[Lumine__]

That would makes sense if we assumed that the second who came and the one who came after are the same individual. But the thing is, in Neuvillette's story they could've just said " the PO and the second throne" or "the PO and the second who came". Plus if u compare between the descriptions and the terms used to describe the war between the PO and TSWC in Before Sun and Moon, and the war described by apep between Nibelung and the heaven, it sounds nearly identical. See, both of them ( TSWC and Nibelung ) brought forth illusions and forbidden knowledge that almost lead Teyvat to the verge of collapse. Unless these were two different conflicts that resulted in the same aftermath which, in my opinion, is less likely to be the case.

[silvion]

I don't like the idea of Nibelung being the third descender for a couple of reasons:
1) I don't think the dragons would call an outsider their king, especially after they had a war with the Primordial One and the Second who came
2) Since the Authority of the Seven Dragon Sovereigns had to be taken and stored in the Gnosis, I would assume that the Gnoses have no inherent elemental power. I don't think it would make sense for the king of dragons, a species with a high elemental affinity, to have no elemental energy in his remains.

I think it would be more safe to assume that the Third Descender would be a being similar to the Traveller, who is able to store energy from all elements, and use it freely. Heck, it might even be possible that the Primordial One and the Second who Came deliberately summoned the Third Descender to kill them and turn them into the Gnoses

[kibasin]

My favorite fan theory that I read is that the 3rd descender is the prince in book "Pale princess and 6 pygmies"

[reveriesend]

I'm sure once Natlan drops, we gonna get more stuff that will change our understanding.

[lulute]

I think that the war of vengence is not the same as the one of the Second throne.

[AllNighterrs]

Amazing video like always! And I agree with all things you said. One thought that came to mind was: About the abyss sibling. In the sumeru archon quest at the end Nahida told us:

"According to the records I was able to acess, your sibling suddenly appeared in khaenri'ah. After the khaenri'ah disaster the sibling began their journey through the seven nations of teyvat. BUT just as their journey was about to reach its conclusion, the Irmensul records on them suddenly become fuzzy" and then nahida goes to say: "All I know FOR SURE is that somebody, for some reason only they can know, is deliberately obfuscating their fate!"

My thought was: What if our sibling was a descender but someone manipulated irmensul. The descenders have no 'data' in irmensul, but can you 'give' data to irmensul? By messing with their 'fate' to avoid the outcome of whatever happened to the 3rd descender, like becoming a gnosis? Why do I believe someone could do that is simple because of Nahidas words that follow after the above: "And whoever it is (meaning the person who messed with the abyss siblings fate), if they can do that, who knows what else they're capable of!"

But there are many unanswered questions that come to my mind: What exactly is this 'fate'? Why did the abyss sibling suddenly appear in khaenri'ah? If they aren't a descender how did they 'appear suddenly?' What is the 'journeys end'?

It's just some random thoughts I had, if you read this much, thanks for readind lmao!