GPX TSE300R preview: new budget model or illegal Chinese copy?︱Cross Training Enduro

If you want extreme enduro training see our playlists of enduro skills to learn. She reported some GPX TSE300R parts are made of material that is too soft or brittle. The kick starter cracked and the gear shift is soft and bends easily. Our mechanic said the linkage had about 6mm of side to side movement which appeared to be due to poor design. The wiring connectors did not appear to be as rugged as genuine KTM items. Poor quality metals have been a consistent theme with cheap Chinese clones so it will be interesting to see long-term reports for the GPX TSE300R. If this is an illegal copy, what might happen? Honda has successfully blocked import of Chinese clones in the past. Or will evidence emerge that these are indeed legal copies and might be a reasonable quality budget dirt motorbike?
Music: my own crappy composition lol
#crosstrainingenduro #enduro #gpx #gpxtse300r

[crosstrainingenduro]

FURTHER NOTES AND UPDATES
ONLY USD 1000 TO 1200? We referenced ads on Alibaba. These may be scams of course. But if genuine, we believe the manufacturer will probably add all sorts of extra costs, shipping charges will probably be huge, and they will probably say that price only applies if you do a bulk order in the hundreds. We suspect the real cost when importing a bulk number would be at three times the cost. A viewer said he made contact with one of these ads and was advised an "original genuine KTM" would be shipped if there was 100% prepayment via bank transfer. 😂 So there's every chance these ads are scams.

'RECALL' ON VERY FIRST TSE300R MODELS SOLD?
Not technically a 'recall', but GPX USA has issued an urgent request for all owners to return their bikes and 'determine a potential problem with a gasket in the engine'. Potentially two sides to this... good on GPX for wanting to fix it quickly. But it's possibly another sign of a Chinese factory making mistakes in manufacturing and/or assembly. One of the GPX social media influencers told me GPX 'has to actively nag the factory to fix issues'... I know quite a few guys who've tried to manufacture stuff in China and say it's a never ending battle. EDIT: GPX USA advises the factory left water in the cooling system after testing, it froze during transit, and caused some gasket issues.

IS IT MUCH CHEAPER? Than a KTM? Sure. But some non-Chinese bikes surprisingly close to GPX's price...
2023 Yamaha YZ250X US$7999 MSRP
2023 Beta Xtrainer US $8299 MSRP
2023 Rieju Ranger US$8599 MSRP
2023 Yamaha YZ125X US$7099 MSRP
GPX TSE300R US$6900


LONG TERM FEEDBACK FROM RUSSIA? A Russian viewer said there are tons of these bikes with 100+ hours by now but called the KAMAX 300 2t in Russia. Another Russian viewer advised the early Kamax models came from the same factory as the GPX models (but Kamax recently changed to another manufacturer).
"In order for this bike to work properly, it needs to be completely disassembled out of the box and reassembled with KTM gaskets, bearings and Loctite. The stock carburetor needs to be replaced due to a lean mixture and the impossibility of tuning. Also it has minor issues with power valve and gearbox."
Apparently Kamax now use a different manufacturer (Chongqing Diyang Science Technology Development Co., Ltd ) instead of Chongqing Hengjian Motorcycle Manufacturing Co., Ltd who are used by GPX.

WHAT ELSE DID MEGS SAY? GPX has given a prototype TSE300R (Linkage) to Megs Braap in exchange for promotion and feedback. We mentioned a few of the negative things she found. There are also things she likes about it. Just search 'GPX TSE300R' on her Facebook page for more details. I tried to put a link here but Facebook won't provide one. If you want a brief summary of the pros and cons according to Megs Braap, scroll to the bottom.

ALLOY SPOKES & POTENTIAL QUALITY ISSUES? Some viewers have questioned this. The bike inspected was only a prototype, and as per the vid various parts will no doubt be upgraded. GPX says their model for sale has stainless steel spokes so we assume spokes will be upgraded. Did the prototype have some kind of aluminium alloy spokes? The mechanic said they had the right colour, they weren't magnetic and were quite weak compared to usual spokes. But he did not conduct a metallurgy test to be sure. Quality issues? GPX's approach to its previous two stroke, the TSE250R, appears to be upgrading suspect components before sale, and then upgrading further components if owners consistently report problems with the bike. We assume the same will happen with this model.

BUT WHAT ABOUT ALL THOSE BRANDS WHO 'STOLE' DESIGNS IN THE 1940s TO 1960s?
Some viewers are pointing out that DKW's revolutionary 125 two stroke design was stolen by many big brands. I don't think that's quite the same situation though as this Chinese IP theft. Prior to WW2, some major manufacturers followed elements of the design without infringing patents... but yes some smaller brands simply copied the porting design without permission. Then (rightly or wrongly), DKW's patents were scrapped under WW2 reparations so there was no stealing involved. Also, patents only run for a certain number of years and I suspect that Japanese copies in the 1960s fell outside the original duration of the patent. Remember these Chinese copies are actually copies of almost the entire KTM model, not just a port design or the engine. And there's a whole Chinese government and legal bureacracy making it very easy to do this unfortunately.

MEGS BRAAP SUMMARY
Pros:
Counter-balanced. It has almost no vibration.
Smooth power delivery
Very light clutch pull
Engine lugs wells
Very 'planted' handling
Reliable battery in -15C temps
Grippy footpegs
Very soft seat
Excellent brakes
Lower seat height
Radiator fan

Cons:
Some parts are made of material that is too soft or brittle.
Clutch lever is too far from the bars
Suspension too soft for many riders
Clutch doesn't feel precise
Stock skidplate fell of immediately
(Ed note: it's a prototype so some of these problems may be corrected).

Quote: "I’m stoked to announce that I’ll be working with Gpx moto / PitsterPro to help them develop and refine their new TSE 300R! This is going to be a really fun and exciting project!"
Megan Griffiths Racing 15.12.22

THE OLD ANTI-CHINESE DEBATE! Some viewers are saying why be against indirectly supporting the CCP by buying Chinese bikes when countries like the USA are just as bad, or even worse. That's a really good question for anyone interested in geopolitics, ethics and consumer choices. I'm no fan of US politics and there have been plenty of horrendous situations with their foreign affairs. And of course positive interventions too. I know anyone who leans to the left will tend to downplay China's bad behaviour and say the USA is just as bad, or even worse... a gross over-simplification in my opinion. And of course anyone leaning toward the right will see any socialist/communist country as inherently evil and the USA as the world's righteous policeman. This is also downplaying the fact that the CCP has done a lot of good such as dramatically decreasing poverty for the Chinese people.
Everyone will have different opinions. Me? I think it depends on why the sanctions are applied. A lot of sanctions are applied due to human rights abuses and state-sponsored terrorism (I know all the old arguments about one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter). Generally I have no issues with those. But other sanctions are applied due to what the USA sees as unfair trade practices and this is where it can be a can of worms. At times it might be justified. At other times it can be used to simply punish a country for not acting in the USA's interest.

[alanwesterfield]

I hid my KTM under a bunch of thick brush this morning when that big damn balloon was flying over FOR THIS EXACT REASON! Don't let them see your bikes guys.... these knock off companies could destroy a good ball bearing with a rubber mallet!

[pharettface]

We've owned 5 total currently have 4 GPX bikes. For what you pay the quality is very much on par and has been on par with Japanese DS bikes. Some things are cheaper softer some things are done very well. God knows my DRZs have soft cheap parts LOL (3 Stators later). Don't have the TSE300 in hand yet but I do know there are a lot of improvements to it I'm excited to try that one out. Our GPX 250 two stroke did awesome hundreds of hours of use and no major issues out side of some minor wear items. our 4 four stroke models have done very well as rentals. The GPX FSE300s IMO are a much more capable, powerful, and fun bike compared to a KLX300S. Reliability over time has been good so far. One of the 300s has a little over a 100 hours with no issues. Also GPX in the US was very good about sending out parts for any defects or shipping issues well beyond a month. Honestly have had the best service and parts of any company I've worked with they try very hard to fix issues or defects. The 450 had a defective air intake replaced for free with a redesigned part. Bout the best I can ask for. I'm not a shill we also rent Beta, Rieju, Honda, etc. but we took a chance on the GPX bikes and through 5 of them have been very happy for the value and it allowing people to get out on real dirt bikes for cheaper and it hasn't tanked us in constant repairs.

[pnwdirttalk]

I know I sound like some angry old crank when I speak out against Chinese bikes over and over again. Everyone is free to tune me out and ignore. "OK boomer". However, I have the long-term good of the sport and industry in mind, I know what I’m talking about, and I’m not going to ignore the opportunity to educate, drive discussion, and hopefully even make a positive impact on the longevity and vitality of the moto community.

Beyond the moto community my experiences delves into topics like national security and political science / geopolitics. I'm no expert by any means, but I can think critically as I have the reading and the traveling to back up my observations. I have stood in Tiananmen Square exactly where the guy with the grocery bags faced down the column of tanks in 1989...before everyone was massacred. When I excitedly gave voice to that observation, I was told firmly by my Chinese minder/guide, "That never happened." That was 2005--just 16 years after the fact. That moment has stuck with me ever since. The People's Republic of China's Chinese Communist Party is NOT a friend to the West. It's not even a friend to the people of China.

The long term cost of buying a Chinese clone/copy/ripoff/whatever bike is going to hit you well after next week's paycheck and it's going to collectively hit all of us as it fundamentally alters the moto industry, as it has as every other industry (phones and pharmaceuticals come to mind). There is no such thing as a free lunch. There is always a catch. The bikes are significantly cheaper than other mainstream OEMs for a reason. Chinese manufacturers don't develop for the most part, they copy. Not much different than the guy who copies the answers to the test. Do you want him as your engineer or software developer? Airline pilot? When the Chinese drive the OEMs out of business through unfair business practice or force them to use cheaper materials in order to compete, we in the community all lose because innovation will stall and quality will suffer.

1. The performance is low because the quality and quality control of parts (metallurgy and manufacturing) and build is low. Parts are not always readily available. I'm sure that'll continue to improve as they expand market share, and yes they're copying other OEMs so some stuff will fit. But what stuff?

2. More importantly, you are sending your money to the Chinese Communist Party, which maintains policies and practices of aggressive theft of intellectual property, copyright and patent infringement, slave wages to undercut legitimate market players, a surveillance state responsible for ethnic cleansing, and a general anti-West stance whose goal is Chinese hegemony--and that will ultimately end in less choice and freedom for EVERYONE.

So there's an opinion for you. If you've already made your decision, just own it and move on. If you haven't, I'd urge you to consider what I've written. Can you avoid buying Chinesium entirely? No, it's not really possible for most people at all times. However, don't make the ridiculous argument that you already own Chinese stuff, so why should this be any different. When feasible, you should choose other than Chinese. A used YZ or TTR or KLX would be a far, far better purchase for a beginner bike. A used KTM 300 or YZ250 would be a far better purchase than the new Chinese 250 and 300 2-strokes.

Bottom line, do your homework. Know what you're buying today and know what you're buying stock in for the future.

[ooooooooa]

We have tons of these bikes in Russia. They have run 100+ hours by now. You can see long-term reports on YouTube using the keywords like KAMAX 300 2t. In short, in order for this bike to work properly, it needs to be completely disassembled out of the box and reassembled with KTM gaskets, bearings and loctite. The stock carburetor needs to be replaced due to a lean mixture and the impossibility of tuning. Also it has minor issues with power valve and gearbox.

[liviosinibaldi]

I run an off-road company in South East Asia, and we are totally fed up with Chinese miserable poor quality, period!

[tintopia]

I can't afford to buy cheap things. Also, the slippery slope of ethics vs dollars leads to a country that doesn't manufacture anything and rewards mediocrity.

[wrightcycleworks]

Take it from a guy who owned a GPX 450. Stay the hell away from GPX. Cheap illegal copies of KTMs. Their customer service is absolutely terrible and parts availability on the important pieces is non existent. They have priced themselves out of being an option in my opinion. One factory in China makes these, and if you order so many you get custom colors and graphics. GPX isn't doing anything revolutionary here. Pitbike company Thumpstar is selling these as well. The 300 is just a punched out version of the Yamaha DT 250 engine they copied for their TSE 250. I have a video on my channel breaking down my experience with GPX for those interested.

Save your money and buy anything else but a GPX!

[dalepellerin]

Just bought the ‘24 GPX TSE300R and only have one ride in but really like it. I wanted to support an American owned dirt bike company and I know no others in the hard enduro space (there’s some kids motocross bikes). Gary and family in Linden Utah are the owners and they’ve been perfecting the manufacturing of these bikes for years.

The parts are manufactured in the same factory that KTM has transitioned most of its parts manufacturing to.

I ordered the bike on Monday, received it on Friday impeccably crated and packed. Owner called me numerous times to let me know how and when it would arrive and provided me direct line for any issues. Put bike together on Friday and rode 25 miles on Saturday and love it this far. I can’t speak to durability of course but for the sale price of $6299 I get electric start, hydraulic clutch, (I chose PDS suspension over linkage) a suspension that oddly, all three of us riders who rode it were impressed with (did not have high expectations).

I can’t confirm but I’ve heard that there’s a much more collaborative agreement between KTM and GPX than suggested in this video. I suspect KTM simply is hiding the fact that they are manufacturing their parts in China more and more.

We’ll see. For $6299 it’s a gamble I’m willing to take. It’s a dirt bike. There’s nothing innovative or complex in the dirt bike market so it’s prone for price disruption; especially when my last dirt bike was $12, 800 out the door from a dealer who never contacted me after, didn’t jet the bike for Colorado correctly and treated me like crap every step of the way. I’ve talked to Gary the owner of GPX 3 times already in less than a week after ordering it.

[cathy]

Buying one of these is like buying a fake $100 note for $50. It looks good and you can brag to your mates about what a good deal it was, until you try to sell it and find that you're stuck with it!

[kick]

I was considering the GPX 450 a few years back as a dual sport bike. I read a lot and messaged a few owners. It seemed to me it was Russian roulette as some people found the best bike of their lives while others had problem after problem, including random breakdowns.
I was debating it but after GPX prices jumped over $5000US, the used market became much more attractive.

[keithmcqueen]

Nope. For 7k I'll pick up a second hand KTM as I know parts will be well available in the future. Also, F those intellectual property thieves.

[daveuth]

If you want bikes to improve, stop buying clones and knockoffs. These companies don't and won't develop better bikes, they just care about taking your money. When they put actual bike manufacturers out of business, we get stuck riding the same Chinese imitation of a real bike without any options or improvements. It's a sure-fire way to kill the industry and the sport.

[mudstick]

It's modern Hodaka, Harley Baja, Honda 50, Suzuki TS/DS models and etc., these are bikes people can afford and learn to ride on, without these types of bikes most wouldn't have a chance to experience riding. KTM, Beta, Husky are all great bikes, these types of brands are for growing into after honing skills and desires to continue riding. As far as the cloning aspects thats between KTM and GPX to figure out. Besides it maybe good for KTM in long run due to the fact someone is acustom to riding a simialar bike. Great youtube channel, love your contant! Great items to keep kids active into sports.

[Tibingi]

IP infringement? easy, no doubt about it. but intellectual property issues are KTM's problem, not ours. The consumers' concern is the quality of this bike and its components, and I can only assume that the saying "Cheap is Expansive" would apply here, easy. think of it - would you use Chinese engine parts, bearings, and other safety parts on your current Enduro bike? I assume not.

[KestrelYI]

This is exactly why I bought a gently used '06 WR250F for trail riding.

[RodNeufeld]

While it is a struggle to come up with the 12, 000 CDN for a new KTM 300 I still would rather buy a used one than a Chinese clone. A one month warranty is no better than just buying a used bike and hoping you picked a good one as I am sure the odds of a good clone are about the same, maybe less.

[patelbv]

F No. I bought a used 7, 500 KTM and spent $7, 500 in maintenance to
Ride 18 months. I’d imagine a china version with play in the linkage and soft parts would even be worse. I guess it’s fine if you just putt putt lightly; but who buys a 300 to putt putt around?

[artisbriska]

When I was a kid, I rode russian motorcycles. You drive for two hours and then repair for four :) . It's the same situation here.

[jamescornflake]

I will respect the big manufacturers if they dedicate their success to and acknowledge Mr. Ug Wheel for his great invention that they use often on their products.