Counselling through an evolutionary lens (from Livestream Q&A #104)

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Theme Music: Thank you to Martin Molin of Wintergatan for providing us the rights to use their excellent music.

[commonempowerment]

Thank you Bret and Heather. As a student of Counselling and Psychotherapy, I'd like to point out that there is actually a massive difference between Counselling and Psychotherapy, and Clinical Psychology. A proficient Counsellor doesn't just get into a person's brain, but into their nervous system. As incredible as psychology is, it's more about the clinical application of techniques and 'problem-solving', whereas counselling is about presence and holding space in order to initiate breakthrough - something reserved in the past for the elders of a society. It's about becoming the sort of person who can hold space, rather than simply acquiring the knowledge needed. As a matter of fact, we've studied you both for one of our class subjects!

[moiragoldsmith]

In the end we can only truly help our selves. But a caring friend or stranger, including small children who listen attentively can sometimes drop a few words to change your whole perspective. 💝

[coolbeanstu]

Thank you both for articulating what many of have intuited for so long.

[-astrangerontheinternet]

“People are always shocked by how well it works”

Hm. Im more shocked by how well it doesn’t work.

[uncleiroh]

That’s a bunch of super interesting points that you both brought up and as a licensed clinical social worker (aka therapist) it really resonates with me. The biggest of which is that it seems to speak to a larger issue of the discontent between college (and the education system as a whole) and the ability to be an effective professional in a wide range of disciplines. It feels like a mentor or apprenticeship model would be significantly more effective than the current college model.

[thepunadude]

LET PEOPLE TALK, UNINTERRUPTED, & LISTEN, I MEAN REALLY LISTEN ... THEY KNOW WHATS WHAT!

[marktourtellotte]

I love you two! I was a clinical psychologist for 29 years. It was a calling that I could not deny, a privilege I was honored to experience, and a true education in humanness.

[meridiable]

Thanks so much for this discussion. I'm a PhD Psychologist now doing private practice. After 10+ years in grad school and training (MA in Evolutionary Psych, MA and PhD in Counseling psych, Clinical psych internship and postdoc... teaching, doing research, etc)... then working full-time doing neuropsych assessment....and now working FT as a psychotherapist... I couldn't agree more. What I learned studying evolutionary psych helped me a lot in general for understanding human behavior and having compassion- very valuable. Zen Buddhist practice/study - also valuable. But the counseling and clinical training? Only useful in terms of the container it provided for direct 1:1 experience with patients (which could have been gotten in better ways). My "education" in counseling/clinical psychology was not just deficient, but actually set me back, and was totally detrimental, except, ironically, for all the traumas it doled out along the path (LOL), and how by suffering and navigating them I learned how to help others do the same. When people ask me what my specialty is, or my methods, I tell them I'm not special, and I throw spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks.

[Gholzigal]

I just had my very first session with a clinical psychologist today after years of procrastinating about seeing someone, it was amazing and can't wait to go back!

[andrewnelson]

Thank you both. Another brilliant video. I have trained in counselling and had some years of counselling too. Training can definitely contribute toward making a good therapist / counsellor, but it’s mostly about the relationship of trust between them. This can allow the experience for the client of being “held” and cared for, and challenged and supported while they learn to adjust their view of themselves and the world around them, and get closer to accepting what is true and what is false.

[TheGardenAddict]

Funny that you mentioned bodywork because I was thinking how much people tell me while they are on my table. I've been doing bodywork for 30 years and I probably hear as much about people's struggles as some psychologists.

[MaatTehuti_Dr_Clark_PsyD]

As a Dr. of Clinical Psychology;
we must remain cognizant-
Healing is both and ART 🖼 & SCIENCE🧪

[mandilyncartwright]

You need perception and intuition and an ability to judge without being judgmental to be a good councilor.

[cynsrsly]

I’ve noticed a different at my University where student affairs is becoming even more disconnected with their students by outsourcing their counselors/therapist. It’s all a telephone/remote type of deal. We had a suicidal Korean student who needed a counselor in the flesh however, that company was not returning the call nor had a Korean translator. My friend and I were able to use our translator app to communicate with the student. He was a senior medical student who was having a hard time paying for school and working two jobs was not even covering tuition much less his apartment. His parents were in Korea so he was all alone in a foreign country. I’m thankful we were able to communicate to him that he is not alone and that we were there to listen whenever he needs a person to speak with. Four hours later the company finally called to check on the suicidal student. It’s strange watching this disconnect happen in the psychology and mental health departments at a University. 😵‍💫

[blacktaxid]

I like to think of this as an active vs passive modality. It can only truly work if you make it an active process. Hence why I think books on the topic that generate a system for you to break through will inherently work better

[marieparker]

The difference between a good friend and confidant and a psychoanalyst is that the latter can be told things that would be too depressing for a good, untrained friend to bear. It would be psychologically damaging for them to hear. One would, out of consideration to one's friend, censor the material, or the friend would censor it while it was being told to him to protect his own psyche. The point of a psychoanalyst who has undergone a training analysis, and who will be seeing a consultant analyst himself regularly, is that they can take in uncensored material without being damaged themselves. Also, they have no relationship with the patient/analysand outside the consulting room. That is very important.

[andynixon]

When we lived in small groups we'd talk to the elders or the shaman and all would be fine . I believe an American couple - not sure who they are - have recently written a book about how our ancient minds try to cope in the modern world . If cholera was the epidemic of the 19th century then anxiety is the epidemic of the 21st - and counsellors are the new shaman.

[justsayupyours]

The best book I’ve read called The Psyche by Billy Meier is decades ahead of current psychology. I put it into practice and it works.

[BlackJar]

Having studied biological psychology, I get sick of people assuming what I did had anything to do with psychotherapy. Actually, there was a kind of therapy, rehabilitation for head injuries and strokes that did interest me, which led to switching to speech pathology where I was some told I'd make a terrible therapist anyway.

[ParisLondonRoma]

Things like "trauma counseling" can make people worse. A shock can suspend critical reasoning factors, and pull a person's mind down into their own machinery, where the subconscious manhandles a subdued and fixated intellect. Defocusing is the way to go, but garden variety trauma counseling is often just "refocusing." Its true that a counselor is useful because of who they are and the wisdom they've acquired (vs what they've studied). Of course another problem is the politicization/monetization of research and practice in psychology. The fact that almost 1 in 7 US citizens is on antidepressants - with a 64% increase between 2000 and 2014 - is an indictment of just how sketchy the "mental health" are has become.