Martin Heidegger on Oswald Spengler (Millerman Talks 27)

What did Martin Heidegger think about Oswald Spengler?

[djketler]

There's a lot of talk here about Spengler & Nietzsche, which is insightful, but Spengler himself says the following: "the philosophy of [The Decline of the West] I owe to the philosophy of Goethe, which is practically unknown today, and also (*but in a far less degree*) to that of Nietzsche". I can't help but wonder if many of Heidegger's comments on Spengler's alleged superficial understanding of Nietzsche is, in light of this, a partly misplaced criticism. Does Heidegger comment on Spengler & Goethe at all? After all, Spengler also writes that he gets his "method" from Goethe, which is very significant, and his "questioning faculty" from Nietzsche.

In a footnote, Spengler says something interesting: "Plato and Goethe stand for the philosophy of Becoming, Aristotle and Kant the philosophy of Being. Here we have intuition opposed to analysis." So, of course, Spengler consciously emphasizes Becoming, but all while thinking that he's in line with Plato, without reference to Nietzsche's 'inversion' of Being into Becoming. It seems this interpretation of Plato may have more to do with Goethe, again, than Nietzsche.

Just some initial thoughts!

EDIT: Spengler also says he owes his "outlook" (Ausblick) to Nietzsche and his "overlook" (Überblick) to Goethe. I'm hearing from Heidegger that Spengler has a (superficial) Nietzschean metaphysics, but that seems incorrect. If a metaphysics can be found in Spengler, wouldn't it be Goethean? Surely 'overlook' is a closer word to metaphysics than 'outlook', but I feign no certainty.

[alfabravo]

Spengler endures today because he was better at predicting the future than his great detractors. In my own experience, I have noticed friends who are highly idealistic have a difficult time with Spengler. Maybe it has something to do with positivism or optimism?

[brianogmacgabhann]

As someone who has studied Spengler I think he nailed it with the power of physiognomy. Look at America. It’s clearly playing the role of a universal state with the most obvious parallels apparent in Rome.

[daeholm]

German philosophers really didn't get along did they?

[Jebusite]

Spengler and Jünger both remain within Nietzschean metaphysics. What I found interesting in this video is the fact that Spengler ridiculed the Stefan George circle for seeking the image of the Hellenes in Holderlin rather than affirming Roman civilization. Heidegger thought the Romans perverted the essence of truth(aletheia, unconcealment) into an essence(veritas, measurement) that was alien to the Greeks. I've been researching Hellingrath and his involvement with the Stefan George circle. I'd be interested in what Heidegger thought about the Stefan George circle or to what extent did Heidegger know about the circle.

[thedawnoftheblackhearts]

No surprise with this acute criticism, because for heigegger nobody understood the question of being, except for him, and thats more arrogant than the title "decline of the west". But when all comes to ruins, we will understand why for the faustian soul, the being is not a question, and that the machine rules over thought and "wants to realise itself"

[attilav.]

...meanwhile the time and recent day's history or happenings justifying Spengler's theory!

[johnmars]

The Black Notebooks are a MUST for anyone interested in a deeper understanding of Heidegger. Being and Time is the start, yes but so many things were made more clear about him both psychologically and in a meta philosophical way by reading the Black Notebooks.

[shaant]

Great video! I’m not sure I understand all of it, but I know Heidegger also criticized Sartre for merely inverting Platonism without overcoming it. There is a quote from Spengler in which he says that it is a person’s ability to foresee their own death that animates them into vitality (though I cannot find the exact quote). It reminded me a bit of being-towards-death. Take care!

[Hnw]

Can you do a version of this but for dumb people like me?

i'm sorry, but i'm really f***ing mad about this. Heidegger himself said subsaharian people didn't have History, not historiology, but no History. Meanwhile Spengler basically says that our understanding of history is one with our own being as a culture, and that the keys to the understanding of history are one with the being in the world as a culture. Each culture has its own way of relating its past to its own self, and this way of relating to the past is one to its being as such. Basically Heidegger is denigrating the fish because it has no lungs. Maybe i'm missing something please, respond.

[pvbonafina]

Is there any historian the could not be deconstructed by Heidegger’s “philosophical supremacist” reasoning?

[derbucherwurm]

Great Video on Heidegger in his black notebooks and his reading of Spengler! Heidegger and Spengler are two of my personal favourite philosophers.

Greetings from Germany

[jeffreykalb]

Heidegger could not even understand Duns Scotus correctly. He was a mere purveyor of word-salads.

[spuzzfut]

People want understand where they are in the great flows of history, but also want to participate, to be a part of the flow, at once conscious an unconscious. A movement that’s not for itself is going to get played, but if it is for itself it becomes something different to what it was.
People want to be both Realist and Nominalist. Becoming self aware is to make new Real forms. Or something

[woodpath]

Have you ever thought of discussing Ernst Jünger and Martin Heidegger? They had a long correspondence and Heidegger wrote about Jünger several text regarding nihilism and technology (GA 90 "On Ernst Jünger", "Regarding 'The Line'").

[basreiziger]

When I read Introduction into methaphysics I could hear Spenglers influence echo. Or was it that heard Heidegger echo in Spengler when read Spenglers work on technology?

[benjamintreitz]

You know what, the best thing about you is that you make complex thinking palatable and "digestible" (albeit not merely "consumable" - one has to still actively listen). It shows that Heidegger etc are not just word salad.

[core-nix]

Could someone explain how Spengler's concept of Dasein differs from Heidegger's?
For Spengler, I think he calls it a plant-like consciousness but I don't really know what he's getting at.

[lacanian_lifter]

“How do you like your coffee?” “Just the cup.”