SANDY MUNRO on Tesla's LFP Batteries

Sandy Munro is here to talk about Tesla's LFP batteries that are now making their way from China and are being used in some of the Model 3 and Model Y vehicles by Tesla.

OUR SPONSOR:

IMPORTANT NOTICE: Sponsors of this channel do not in any way control or influence the opinion or views expressed in E for Electric videos. All sponsor content is clearly marked and announced in every instance. Views and opinions expressed on this channel do not necessarily represent or reflect the opinions of our sponsors, their partners or their associates.

FAQ: How can I be impartial in covering EV brands if this channel is sponsored by one of them?

Electric Car Apparel & Merchandise from E for Electric:

Our website:

[girowinters]

I've got an lfp Sr model 3. It's still pretty freaking fast. Makes my mates impressed

[berthogendoorn]

LFP batteries are not manufactured in the USA due to the current patent that is held in China, but this will change in 2022 as the patent will expire, so potentially LFP batteries could be available to be manufactured in the USA or anywhere for that matter. The one downside that was exposed by Tesla model 3's with LFP that were delivered in the EU, is their cold weather charging performance. This has been mitigated by better battery thermal management that Tesla has updated since the issue arose last year. I currently have 4KWH of LIFO batteries in my RV and I replaced 360lbs of AGM Lead acid with 75lbs of LFP batteries, never been happier. They charge so well I had to put a DC to DC converter between my 260amp Alternator and the house batteries to limit charge current, or the Alternator would have been fried as those LFP batteries are charge hungry, very different the AGM!!

[jimave]

I ordered and got a Model 3 SR+ with the LFP battery in September. I switched my order so that I could get it quicker. I know that this is the “slowest” Tesla, but it’s still quick enough for me. I charge it to 100% almost every night.

[PhillProbst]

LFP is a type of battery chemistry. OTOH, 4680 is a form factor. Totally separate, unrelated issues. LFP could be 4680, or prismatic or whatever. 4680's can be LFP or nickel, cobalt, whatever. Totally separate independent issues.

[alexbigkid]

LFP batteries usually have less capacity per kg or volume. So usually less range for the same pack. It loses more range in cold climates. But it has few advantages like: can be charged to 100% without degradation as the usual Li-Ion battery.

[arthur]

Some people may appreciate the benefits of LFP over Li-ion. 1. 80% charge of 326 = 260 miles range, Li-ion recommended daily charge level to prevent damage. And, discharge limited to 10-20% also to prevent damage. (LFP) can be charged everyday to 100% and discharged below 5% without any battery damage. A fully charged LFP will give you 260 miles range compared to 228 miles for Li-ion, i.e., 70% of 326 if you charge to 80% and discharge to 10% to protect the battery. Conclusion: LFP battery is far more convenient on this point alone. Other advantages: much safer against thermal fire, lower cost, longer life. I want to charge my Tesla in my garage with LFP peace of mind that my house will not burn down because of a 1 in 50k chance of battery fire. There are disadvantages maximum charging current ~ 70kw/hr, i.e., 20 to 100% state of charge ~ 75 minutes. And, cold weather has been reported to reduce range by 50% in some cases. Conclusion, LiFePO4 has lower performance in cold climates and ~2x longer (super charging) charge time compared to LCA batteries.

[chrismcardell]

LFP is good for home battery storage like powerwall due to slower discharge, more cycles and lower cost materials

[DavidKent]

I have in New Zealand a Tesla Model 3 SR+ made in Shanghai with the CATL LFP batteries. I change to 100% once a week and that is enough for my weekly use. Also great to do a trip with as there is no problem using the complete range from 100% to 1% without any battery damage.

[michaelm.]

I am planning to go with LFP with my Model 3 order as I prefer the increased longevity and 100% charge ability. Even with the slower performance it is still faster than my Bolt.

[franknicholasdale]

A very informative, article, clear and understandable, clear in comparisons so everyone can understand. What is particularly good this is about the topic not an ego driven program. Thank you!

[jessekaufman]

Please ask Sandy more about the roadmap for battery tech in the next 10 years.

Many of us are very interested in understanding when the masses will be able to afford a BEV. Will graphene technology, solid state batteries, and other tech increase Tesla's ability to scale battery production? Will this lend itself to more accessible BEV products?

[HylanderSB]

Counterintuitively, octane makes gasoline a little less explosive. You want that in a high performance engine because usually the compression ratios are much higher and higher octane prevents pre-ignition. Something we'll soon forget after the ICE era.

[vwasson]

Have been asking myself for some time now "Why the obsession with 0-60 speed?". So now with the LFP...little less oooomph per Sandy Munro but better charging, safety, and range....sounds like a good trade to me.

[Nippon]

All the way from Greece we love when Sandy is sharing his knowledge with us !!

[ronaldlenz]

I normally respect Sandy, but he did not do his homework for this episode. LFP 'IS' a lithium battery. It is LiFePO4 (lithium iron phosphate). They contain no nickel, cobalt, manganese, or aluminum. These metals are all more expensive than iron. LFP has a different supply chain. Why is LFP good? Because they are cheaper and available and less likely, maybe even immune to burning. They also charge to 100% with no degradation. The downside is that LFP are less energy dense...the pack weighs more for the same kWh. They also provide less power (kW), therefore the 0-60 times are less, all else equal. Tesla just downgraded the 0-60 time for the standard Model 3 with LFP.

[TronpointOh]

If you could ask Sandy, why don't they use super capacitors for acceleration? In essence saving quick drain on the battery. A solar hood or braking could recharge the super capacitors in between acceleration periods.

[chrissscottt]

Not sure if talking about battery chemistries is Sandy's forte. He just keeps repeating the same point about energy density.

[Laura-S]

LFP batteries are a type of Lithium ion battery chemistry. 4680 is a battery form factor, not a battery chemistry. The alternative to LFP is nickel batteries (NMC and NCA).

[foxmd]

I'm not sure why Sandy is making such a big deal about LFP cars being slow?!
I get it LFP's don't output as much as Li-ion however my LFP Model Y is WAY plenty fast
I'm coming from a Subaru WRX 5 speed and the Model Y LFP is every bit as quick.
I personally would like to see Tesla slow down the quicker models because most people have no idea how to drive a car that quick.

[drew]

LFP is the more sustainable option. They use materials that are plentiful in the Earth's crust, they're cheaper, safer, last longer, and are easier to recycle. I won't buy anything else. Also, BYD gets high performance out of their LFP blade batteries. No one ever talks about them though 🤔.