John 6:29: Is Faith a Work?

Dr. Flowers continues a discussion from an earlier episode in which a Calvinist friend poses the argument that faith must be a "work" due to John 6:29...

Let's Discuss!

[beowulf.reborn]

I honestly can't see how someone could read Jesus' words there, and actually walk away thinking that He was saying that Faith is a Work. It is so clear by the context that He is saying that Salvation is not by works, but by faith.

[kelvyquayo]

Powerful proclamation of Truth, brother🙏🏼

[a.k.]

The meat of John 6:28-29: 28"What must we do?" 29"Believe in Me."

[evanu]

It’s funny that this even has to be explained.

[primeobjective]

If the Scriptures say we are "...justified BY faith APART from WORKS of the law [of Moses]", how can it be said that FAITH is also WORKS from the law [of Moses]?

It does not, but Calvinism DEMANDS it.

[cindyt.]

Another excellent teaching. I have learned so much from you. It's good to be back for refresher courses. You explain difficult thoughts in simplistic ways that I can understand. The chore and allowance explanation was fantastic!!! Also, the double jeopardy answer. Excellent!! You've help me understand so many aspects of witnessing to a Calvinist and understanding how they think. THANK YOU SO MUCH, FOR BEING A FAITHFUL SERVANT OF THE LORD!!

[elizabethdepalma]

John 6:29 is one of my favorite Bible verses. I BELIEVE!

[awesomefacepalm]

So classical calvinism teaches that God has a prescriptive will that he has revealed to us in his word. And then a secret will that we don't know about that seemingly contradicts his word in the Bible.

Imo that's a slippery slope in to dualism

[MyRoBeRtBaKeR]

The works of Jesus, we need to believe that Jesus, just as in the beginning, finished the work on the last day.
We are in the last day.

[kendellbise]

Abraham believed God and it was counted to him as righteousness .

[DrVarner]

Mic Drop, 24:08. Calvinism creates 2 gods; the biblical God and the Calvinist god.

[daleogilvie]

This is how I understand John 6:29.

Jesus replied and said to them: this ( what I am doing ) is the work of God, in order that you might believe in the one who God has sent.

[larrybedouin]

Our works are wrought in our faith.

Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
{James 2:18}

[DS-llfn]

My son reacted like this when he heard the calvinistic view of God.:
God created the Garden of Eden placed Adam and Eve in it and gave them a comand not to eat from the tree of good and evil. And them God pre-ordained, decreed, that Adam and Eve will break the commandment and God punished them for this. A capricious God.
Imagine the reaction of children in the natural realm if a father would do such thing. How can such a father be trusted?
So exhausting to think this labyrints of thoughts one have to go through in order to justify the calvinistic view of God.
It is like extreme thoughts gymnastics in order to explain this view and yet, more confusion is the result.

[JohnQPublic]

When the New Testament is talking about works its talking about the ceremonial and the ritual and the feast days entailed in Jewish Law. *FAITH IS NOT* a work in any way, shape or form.

[jasonyoung]

Let’s say faith equals salvation, thus:

FAITH = SALVATION

Therefore, if I have faith, I have (by virtue of having faith) salvation.

But SALVATION IS A VESSEL, and faith is not.

It takes a great deal of knowledge, skill, expertise, work, and 200 years to build a SALVATION vessel.

I have none of these: no knowledge, skill, expertise, couldn’t afford the labor and the many years.
Therefore, there’s no way I could ever possess a SALVATION vessel.

It is determined that my world is dying and only a SALVATION vessel can get one out.

I am desperate, and I go to a SALVATION vessel owner to see what I could do to build my own vessel.

ME: What works must I do to build my own SALVATION vessel?

SALVATION VESSEL OWNER: There’s nothing you can do. You don’t have the skill, the knowledge (etc), but I tell you what you can do. TAKE THIS TICKET, FAITH, show it at the door of SALVATION vessel, you’ll be let in.

FAITH gets me into SALVATION, but is that faith work, even though I’d asked about the work I could do to build my own SALVATION vessel?

We see that the categories are different. One thing grants me something, but it’s not that something itself. There’s work, but it’s not me who did the work. I merely climbed aboard the vessel via the ticket FAITH.

Only the most obtuse would say that my climbing into the vessel is the same category of “work” as building the vessel itself. Most wouldn’t even call climbing into the vessel work. Careful thinking shows that salvation is not work. Work is building a SALVATION vessel. Faith is the ticket that gets you into the vessel. Jesus gave his questioners tickets as it were for the vessel.

[nathanclark]

Leighton, I know it’s not your vein necessarily, but I highly recommend you check out an album... a review of it could be a fun video. Extra Nos by Flame. He chronicles his journey and convictions that took him out of Calvinism. You can even look up all the lyrics for every song. Maybe even consider reaching out to him to invite him on?

[aidanmcmanus]

Dr. Flowers contradicts the scriptures when he says that there are two baptisms today. By the time Paul penned Ephesians 4:5 he said that there was only one baptism. By a process of elimination that means water baptism is the only baptism today since that is the baptism commanded for all who believe under the great commission (Mark 16:15-16). In fact, it is in water baptism that one receives the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38-39).
Therefore, to answer Mr. Carter's question on Colossians 2:11-13; Paul is referring to water baptism there. If people are willing to examine the scriptures carefully, they will notice that Holy Spirit baptism occurred only twice in the NT after Jesus ascension into heaven (Luke 24:46-49; Acts 1:4-8; Acts 2:1-4; Acts 10: 44-48; and Acts 11:15-16). There are no other instances of Holy Spirit baptism other than these two cases.

[Elmarias]

The moment that it clicked for me recently was recognizing that the "secret will" argument, having God cause people to sin without being guilty of it by some mysterious means, is just making God duplicitous, and two-faced. Having Him be the author of everything that happens, but now He cannot sin or cause sin, but since He authors everything, He has to author sin, but somehow is not responsible for authoring sin.
It just doesn't make sense and causes harm to the character of God.
If the only way to be saved is for God to choose me, then logically speaking, the only reason I go to hell is because God did not pick me as one of His elect.

[scottyfleming]

I see alot of Calvinists saying that it’s not a work either. That it’s a gift after regeneration. Is that the point we should focus on? That it’s their belief that it’s after regeneration and not that they believe it’s a work?