The Director of the Institute for Advanced Studies on Moving Beyond Materialism

This is Episode 2 of Theories of Everything's "Rethinking the Foundations of the Academy: How to improve scientific inquiry?" series featuring Raphaël Liogier.

Raphaël Liogier of the Institute for Advanced Studies is a distinguished sociologist and philosopher, specializing in the study of beliefs, secularization, and the relationship between spirituality and modernity.

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Timestamps:
00:00 - Intro
00:24 - Raphael’s Background
06:10 - Meditation
15:35 - Materialism
28:57 - Future of Humanity
36:30 - Beauty and Love
43:39 - Transcendence
46:58 - Main Challenge of Our Time
50:18 - Transcendence (continued)
53:33 - Modernity
01:03:58 - Schopenhauer and the Jesuits
01:11:51 - Mystics and Alchemy
01:21:34 - Reaching ‘God’
01:26:18 - Zeno’s Paradox
01:31:22 - Raphael’s Current Work
01:35:03 - Outro / Support TOE
01:37:44 - Bonus Footage

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#science #philosophy #consciousness

[TheoriesofEverything]

Timestamps:
00:00 - Intro
00:24 - Raphael’s Background
06:10 - Meditation
15:35 - Materialism
28:57 - Future of Humanity
36:30 - Beauty and Love
43:39 - Transcendence
46:58 - Main Challenge of Our Time
50:18 - Transcendence (continued)
53:33 - Modernity
01:03:58 - Schopenhauer and the Jesuits
01:11:51 - Mystics and Alchemy
01:21:34 - Reaching ‘God’
01:26:18 - Zeno’s Paradox
01:31:22 - Raphael’s Current Work
01:35:03 - Outro / Support TOE
01:37:44 - Bonus Footage

[gdhors]

I was an uncompromising materialist for so so long, but as I've gotten older, and follow what really seems like a growing consensus among today's thinkers, I starting to accept that materialism is at a dead end, and there's growing evidence that we exist beyond the material world. Or maybe the youtube algorithm has totally duped me into thinking this is a real trend.

[gabydareau]

I disagree that anguish is the only emotion that does not lie.
The unconditional love of spirit is the only truly authentic state because it is pure knowing with no concept of perception, and it is the only state that is perfectly shared without conflict.
Anxiety is inherently a conflicted state of doubt - some part of the mind fighting against what is.

Emptiness of perception is not emptiness of knowing.
There can BE no emptiness in that which IS!

This is, interestingly, what most people experience when they leave their body in an NDE and come back to speak of it. They often experience the void as an initial phase, but this almost always transformed into an extremely overpowering experience of immense unconditional love.

[Killane]

I totally and deeply understand what this very authentic man is trying to articulate ❤

[anonony]

This guy has more degrees than a thermometer!

[sonarbangla]

True, Buddhism was adopted/endorsed by the whole of the civilized world and was accepted voluntarily without applying force, because of Bodhisattva the Buddhist mindset that understood the need for nonviolence, rule of law, freedom, liberty, human rights etc. and create the modern civilized world in continuation of Krishna's Sanatan religion, as if everyone were waiting for Boddhisattva. Maybe, this guy gives the correct interpretation of Nagarjuna's emptiness.

[brandonb]

Amazing discussion, especially the surprise ending! Thank you both for the thoughts.

Alchemy was my escape from Inertialism, but the weird thing is that I wasn’t searching for the “experience”; the experience had to show itself for me to snap out of it.

Finding the Void may be easier to attain by staring at the night sky in meditation, possibly because we know it is not EMPTY! 😊🤙🏼

[quantumkath]

Meditation gives consciousness a rest while the brain continues to spew out random thoughts that beg to be addressed.

[truepatriot]

TRANSCENDING DETERMINISTIC INDUSTRIALISM INTO SYNTROPIC ABUNDANCE - While deterministic causation does seem to exist, and is the basis of Western science and technology (and other aspect dominant culture), it is not the ONLY pattern of causation. It is insufficient to explain the cosmos, particulary its pervasive complexification into beautiful and intelligent living systems, as Raphael points out. I view this deterministic causation as an coercive process from the outside>in or from top>down, involving an increase of entropy. Because it is realtively "easy" to break things apart (from chemical bonds to the voluntary agency of living things), the application of concentrated (focused) entropic force is "deterministic". It also has objectified, de-vitalized, characterised by a Win-lose, zero sum, scarcity, fearful mindset, and by Us-them, I-it relations. AND this "entropic causation" involves a self-fulfilling dynamic since acting in accord to this coercive, deterministic worldview will increase entropy, setting into motion a positive-feedback loop of degradation, with ever-increasing difficulties as things fall apart. BTW, our capacity to wield such deterministic force is located in our Left-brain, and its strategy for minimizing information entropy ("surprisal" according to Friston's FEP) is to force the world to fit what we expect, our model, our ego-desires.

On the other hand, our Right-brain has capacity for non-coercive, loving, relational, I-thou, We-are-them and They-are-us kinship relations, and for un-coerced (freely chosen) participation in the unpredictable co-creation of Win-win abundance. It provides an awareness of "syntropic causation" that is not, and CAN NOT BE, deterministic, but allows surprising emergence of vitality, beauty and complexification. This involves reducing surprisal by developing awareness and understanding of the world as-it-is, and of its potentiality for entropic and syntropic causation/outcomes/flows. Generally, this mindset is required for the enlightened pursuit of truth, beauty and goodness. It is the necessary foundation for the discipline, empathy, skill and restraint required to transcend the perilous paradoxes and positive-feedbacks of power, control, and entropic causation. Only cultures based on a common understanding of the risks, benefits and potentialities of syntropic and entropic causation, and the coincidence of opposites (coincidentia oppositorum) required, are able to carefully deploy power, control, technology, deception, etc... in service of sacred syntropic values and ideals rather than tragic ego-driven pursuits (wealth, power, status). There are many successful examples of this syntropic mindset and its many healthy fruits, including healthy spiritual communities and especially indigenous cultures around the world. These cultures demonstrate that all of us are capable of enabling our planetary civilization to flow from the entropic anthropocene into an age of abundance with individual, collective, and ecological regeneration-healing and of syntropic flourishing. We can do this!

And yes, Raphael and Ian McGilchrist have kindred spirits destined meet in beauty. May it be so.

I am loving what you are sharing with all of us, Curt, and suppose this means I love you too! Thank you for another brilliant dialogue.

[hvalenti]

I can hardly follow physics beyond the ontological, so I loved this ep. Btw, I think the Tao Te Ching is the masterclass in paradox, which is "solved" not by grasping, but by simply accepting its existence.

[shanudutta]

My Perspective on Arrow Paradox:

Force can never be at Rest. Effects of Forces can give illusion of Rest but Force itself cannot be at Rest Ever.
The Arrow Paradox is thus arises because our instantaneous measurement is only looking at the effects of Forces but not the ever present dynamic Force acting on the Arrow.

[polymathpark]

The idea that aesthetics precede ethics is interesting, but isn't aesthetics even more intractable and difficult to agree upon than ethics? The word is more subjective imo.

I like a lot of these ideas, great interview as always!

[NotNecessarily-ipvc]

Examples contrasting contradictory formulations from classical theories with their potential non-contradictory counterparts using infinitesimal/monadological frameworks:

1) The Measurement Problem in Quantum Mechanics

Contradictory:
Standard Copenhagen Interpretation

If a system interacts with a measurement device, the quantum state undergoes wave function collapse into an eigenstate of the measured observable.

This introduces an ad-hoc, unphysical process that is inconsistent with the deterministic Schrödinger evolution.

Non-Contradictory Possibility:
Relational Quantum Mechanics
|Ψ>total = Σn cn |Un>system |Vn>apparatus
Measurement = Modulation of relations between |Un>, |Vn>

By treating measurements as interactions modulating relational correlations between monadic system and apparatus states |Un>, |Vn>, collapse can be avoided while preserving definite records.

2) Renormalization Issues in Quantum Field Theory

Contradictory:
Renormalization via infinite subtractions

Feynman diagrams contain divergences like ∫d4k/k2 = ∞ which must be absorbed by redefining parameters.

This ad-hoc renormalization procedure lacks physical justification and does not converge in realistic models.

Non-Contradictory Possibility:
Infinitesimal Regulator Approach
∫d4k/[k2 + ρ2]1/2 < ∞ (ρ is infinitesimal regulator)
All calculations manifestly finite using infinitesimals ρ

Introducing infinitesimals avoids true mathematical infinities from the start, removing the need for unmotivated subtractions.

3) Paradoxes in Set Theory

Contradictory:
Naive Set Theory

Russell's Paradox, Burali-Forti Paradox arise from unrestricted set comprehension axioms.

These paradoxes undermined early attempts at formalizing abstract set theory foundations.

Non-Contradictory Possibility:
Topos Theory / Categorical Set Theory

X ≃ Y ⇐⇒ ∃n, IsEquivalent(X, Y) in (∞, 1)-Category(n)
U: ∞-Topos → ∞-Groupoids (univalent universes)

Representing sets/classes as higher identifications up to homotopy equivalence in (∞, 1)-categories avoids the self-referential paradoxes.

4) The Problem of Mental Causation

Contradictory:
Classical Property Dualism

Mental properties and physical properties are distinct.
But how can the mental cause any physical effects/behavior?

This is the core paradox of the mind-body problem - mental causation seems impossible on dualist premises.

Non-Contradictory Possibility:
Monadic Neutral Monism

Qsystem = Usystem|0> (mental state from monad perspective)
Physical = RelativeState(Qsystem, Qenv)

If mental states are monadic perspectives and physics arises relationally between monads, mental causation is simply the modulation of physical relative states via monadic perspectival transitions.

5) The Continuum Hypothesis in Set Theory

Contradictory:
Zermelo-Fraenkel Axioms

CH: There are no sets whose cardinality is strictly between that of the integers and the real numbers.

However, CH is logically independent of ZFC, and leads to paradoxes like the Banach-Tarski paradox of measure.

Non-Contradictory Possibility:
Non-standard Analysis

Cardinality(*R) = Cardinality(R) + 1
*R contains infinitesimal and infinite elements

Treating the real continuum *R as derived from ordered infinitesimal monadic extensions resolves CH by assigning a higher cardinality, avoiding paradoxes.

6) Paradoxes of Spacetime Singularities

Contradictory:
General Relativity

Gμν = 8πTμν
Solutions contain spacetime singularities where geometric description breaks down.

The presence of singularities where physics becomes transcendentally ill-defined represents a fatal flaw.

Non-Contradictory Possibility:
Combinatorial Algebraic Quantum Gravity

ds2 = Σx, y Γxy dxdy (metric from monadic charge relations)
Gμν = f(Γxy, mx, qx, ...) (monadic gravitational dynamics)

Representing spacetime/gravity algebraically from relations Γxy among discrete quantized monadic charges/masses avoids singular infinities entirely.

7) The Liar's Paradox in Logic

Contradictory:
"This statement is false."

If true, it is false. If false, it is true.

This simple self-referential statement leads to a paradox that undermines classical bivalent logic.

Non-Contradictory Possibility:
Pluriverse-Valued Realizability Logic

⌈A⌉ = {Vn(A) | n∈N} (truth value as monadic realization projections)
A ↔ B ⇐⇒ ⌈A⌉ = ⌈B⌉ (equivalence between realization pluriverses)

Representing statements as pluriverses of realizability projections Vn(A) across monads, rather than binary truth values, avoids self-referential paradoxes.

8 ) The Black Hole Information Paradox

Contradictory:
Classical Black Hole Models

As matter crosses the event horizon, information about its initial state is irretrievably lost to external observers.

This seems to violate unitarity and entropy increase principles of quantum theory.

Non-Contradictory Possibility:
Monadic Black Hole Complementarity

|Ψ>exterior = Σn cn |Un>horizon
|Ψ>interior = Σn cn |Vn>trans-pit

Treating the exterior/interior as distinct monadic realizations |Un>, |Vn> of the same superposition allows information to be holographically distributed across all perspectives.

[muerpa]

This was very interesting. It might seem vague in some parts, but grasping concepts that have not been clearly named and concepcionalized by our culture is usually pretty hard. It’s part of bringing about metaphysical concepts. Materialism seems to be the only straightforward metaphysical theory, but it is in my opinion a bit of an illusion because it somewhat simplifies experience and the philosophical work to fully understand is usually focused on trying shut out any other categories of ontology that might exist in reality. Even the epistemological aspects of materialism is simplified and non unifying (measurement problem, incompleteness theorem, the reality of irreducible complexity, etc).

[johnsaunders]

This has been my lifes work. So refreshing to hear it hear. Thank you. 🙏🏼

[-nxu]

It feels like the perfect time to invite Andrés Gomez Emilsson 🔥

[coolbule]

It seems he's just saying for meditation. accepting the void is that: if you accept the void you gain Zen; or a flow state where you feel like you become the process itself. So imagine the process being the very thing of living, of being a person; being yourself without baggage, without preamble- without expectation of what you should be or what you can be or what you ought to be. to simply be "to be". To be yourself, assuming the self is such a thing that is beyond the appearance and beyond the physical nature of your neurons and the deterministic cultural implications, that make you so as you are. In hopes essentially, one will be who they really are without all that. raw intuitive emotion that is emergent out of the laws of the universe but not necessarily restricted by it. Perhaps it's stochasticity?

[trentline]

Very similar to Mcgilchrist. You’ve got to get them together they would love each other!

[oddedges]

Wow. This guy launches right in and is absolutely fantastic. Great one Curt

[barbarakane]

Curt, I like the vibrations between you and Raphael!