Ex-Evangelicals or Ex-Fundamentalists?

We discuss the recent book by Sarah McCammon, "The Exvangelicals: Loving, Living, and Leaving the White Evangelical Church." What are we to do with all these stories from ex-evangelicals? Would ex-fundamentalists be a more accurate term?

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[mrbuckmeister]

At this point evangelical is an incredibly imprecise label. One thing that helped to muddy the waters is fundamentalists rebranding themselves as evangelicals.

[SavannahSedai]

Kaitlyn's points are just plain great!

[mrbuckmeister]

Skye makes a good point about people coming in. People like Jesus. They are put off by the politics that have become synonymous with the church.

[cjbloyer]

I'm absolutely with Kaitlyn on this. I identify a lot with other people who have rejected the "evangelical" label, but our stories "rhyme" rather than "repeat". I am convinced that the more we discuss our experiences within the Church (both the American versions AND those abroad), the better off we'll all be.

[staytheknight]

I’m a born again Christian in the absolute biblical sense for over 20 years now. And I left my church about 4 years ago now. I held a leadership position and I figured out that my marriage was irreparably over. (It was my decision not my ex wife’s)
I did the right thing by telling my associate pastor that I was planning on filing for a divorce and that because of that I needed to step down from my position. The conversation did not go well. I was offered counseling and when I refused the counseling because my mind was made up. The vitriol that was spewed at me was unimaginable! I’m by no means the best Christian or really even that good of a Christian in terms of piety. And I felt really lost there for a while… but I’m glad that I stuck to my position and didn’t go back into a horrible marriage.
I’m still putting the pieces of my life back together, and the storm is still raging in my life. And for a while I walked away from Jesus. But I never stopped loving Jesus, and I’m glad to have found a community of people who reject fundamentalism but who still haven’t walked away from Jesus. I really needed that!

[ZipplyZane]

And, finally, I agree there have always been people leaving the Evangelical movement, and that we aren't hearing as much from those who join. However, I don't think we can assume things are the same as before. And a lot of that is for the reasons you guys have talked about. Evangelicalism embraced Trump, antivax/antimask rhetoric, Christian Nationalism. And more and more people know people who are LGBT, and thus leave because of how they get treated. Also, there is more rejecting of the racism that a lot of evangelical organizations aren't rejecting. More sexism and sexual harassment are being called out. And Americans in general are becoming less religious.

I do think American Evangelicalism is collapsing because of these things, and the refusal to fix them. I know far more people who have stopped going to church than I ever did as a kid. Adults stuck with the church. Now, even while they are still Christians, they no longer feel they can be in the church they grew up in.

While I have problems with Evangelicalism for other reasons, right now, I think there is a huge problem of sin, and people realizing that so many Evangelicals don't believe what they taught their kids to believe. And there is not only a lack of desire to fix things, but an embracing of the other side.

[ZipplyZane]

I tend to think of myself as fitting into ex-vangelical, having deconstructed and still reconstructing. But my story is not at all like these. There were the occsaional object lessons that are bad, and some bad messaging, but it wasn't the way these people describe.

I didn't change because I was unhappy with the way things were. I enjoyed my life that way. It felt right. The bad stuff was there, but I didn't notice it until after my beliefs started changing. It was after I realized that I wasn't right wing politically, and that a lot of what I was taught as Christianity was right wing politics.

It was also after a severe personal trauma, one that left me housebound for a while. It was after talking with people who were harmed by beliefs that I realized weren't really necessary. It was realizing that the Bible didn't say a lot of those things I was taught it said.

It was far more me realizing I was wrong than feeling traumatized by the church. This is unlike my cousins, who encountered sexual discrimination and harassment. Or my sister who saw how finding out her best friend was gay meant the church abandoned him. I didn't notice those sorts of things until after I had already realized that some teachings were wrong.

[mykewilliamsdorsey]

Evangelical, fundamentalist, it really doesn’t matter because it’s been multiple generations since the political union of these two not so distinct groups. At 57 I grew up in the midst of this stuff. No matter how well a writer like this one explained this movement those who choose to remain will not admit she has a very valid point. Purity culture, racism, sexism, rage against the LGBT community, mega church money abuse, destruction of rock albums, end times insanity, pastoral leadership abuse, bad marriage counseling, child sexual abuse, the false teaching of the prosperity gospel, and of course hellfire if you don’t believe the right doctrine. Yeah, I think we’re done here. Love God, love your neighbor, and by the grace of God you could learn to love your enemies.

[StumblingThroughItAll]

Kaitlyn is on it lately!!! Her willingness to engage in conversations re "evangelicalism" and "Christian Nationalism" lately, by actually engaging the best arguments and not the worst has been a breath of fresh air. Keep it up!

I grew up in the evangelical world. "Prayed the prayer" with my Sunday school teacher when I was 6. Was very active in my local church and youth group through high school. When I went to college, surprise, I came to believe that those who brought me up in the church were lame, backward in many of their beliefs, and lacking in intellectual heft. Honestly, I had a sense of self-righteous pride that my little suburban gray-haired church was out of step, and I was now on the cutting edge of hip, urban, culturally relevant, and intellectually superior Christianity.

Fast forward to 2020.

My culturally relevant church (who just so happens to be made up almost entirely of hip, urban, upper class, young working professionals with young families, just like me) shuts its doors and keeps them closed even past the date upon which the Supreme Court rules churches to be essential. They do everything in their power to "protect their witness" in the city, yet in doing so, they forsake the command in Hebrews 10:25, to continue meeting together (online church is not a real replacement).

Meanwhile, my old, small, suburban, culturally irrelevant church is bending over backwards to find ways to bring people together in Word and Sacrament. They remained consistent in their calling and mission even when the world turned upside down. It was deeply humbling to me in my own pride and self-righteousness.

I'm back to attending that old little "evangelical" church, and while it still lacks edginess and cultural relevancy, I have found it to be a beautiful example of "a long obedience in the same direction".

Have they got some things wrong over the years? Absolutely! But as Spurgeon puts it;

"If I had never joined a church till I had found one that was perfect, I should never have joined one at all. And the moment I did join it, if I had found one, I should have spoiled it, for it would not have been a perfect church after I had become a member of it. Still, imperfect as it is, it is the dearest place on earth to us..If we love Christ as we think we do, as we pretend we do, we shall love his Church and people...The church is not perfect, but woe to the man who finds pleasure in pointing out her imperfections! Christ loved his church, and let us do the same.”

[pnw_Eli]

I get the frustration from Evangelicals over all the bad press, and the desire to get more distance from the bad parts, or for there to be the positive, redemptive stories to give it balance. Believe me, I know, I was an Evangelical most of my life.

But I think Evangelicals need to own it. Evangelicalism has hurt so many people, and continues to hurt them. There are countless people being hurt *right now*. I think it lets off the church too easily to forgive those who harm because of ignorance, or cluelessness, or "well, I'm just a fallen person". Furthermore I firmly believe that there's troubling questions about the complicity of the institutional structure and perhaps even the very dogma itself that perpetuates harm. I'm not sure there is any healthy way to practice spirituality that believes in eternal damnation, or (often) upholds patriarchal leadership, or is virulently anti-science, or is constantly baited into a culture war because "everyone who doesn't agree with us is lost and needs to hear the gospel".

And furthermore, If the church is indeed the gateway to the divine, that draws a whole new paradigm around what is and isn't acceptable. I don't think you can really say, "well on balance this is a net good, even given this mountain of horror stories of abuse and messed up lives". An institution that claims to speak for God should be radically humbled by even one lost sheep, even if the other 99 are having a good time.

Just my two cents, as someone who spent 30 years in the Evangelical church and now wishes he could get those years back.

[stephanieholmes]

There is more focus on the people that are leaving because of the people who want to convince you that the rapture is very very close, because of the great falling away that happens right before. It falls in the same category with moving the embassy to Jerusalem and other things people are doing to try to make the end times happen on their schedule.

[bori]

I literally changed my X profile on Sunday from "Evangelical" (to specific denoms). My views are same as 1970 but the label was now uncomfortable

[julry]

Nancy French’s appearance on the Good Faith podcast discussing her memoir Ghosted is a nice supplement to this conversation

[zackattack]

One of the deeply confusing pieces for me when I came to faith in college was other students leaving faith who had the "Christian" homes I wished I grown up in.

[truthmatters]

I'm a recovering evangelical....it took several years and a whole lot of praying and crying and seeking the Lord's face, whilst I systematically peeled back the indoctrination of my evangelical upbringing. My spirituality was in jeopardy when I saw so many (80%+) evangelicals sell their souls to the very ANTITHESIS of the Jesus they used to follow! Sold their souls for power...what weak character trait did they all share for so many to hitch their wagons to such a blatantly amoral EVIL, AMORAL, VINDICTIVE, LYING BULLY! I continue to still struggle with that...
The Lord was faithful. He was there waiting for me with outstretched arms welcoming me home...
Thankfully I LOST my religion but THANKFULLY kept my FAITH!! After 50+ years of being a CHRISTian, I was free from the shackles of man-made teachings and doctrines.
It's disheartening to see and hear the 34CONVICTED FELON say his intentions without hesitation!! Project 2025 is his blueprint for dismantling our government and Constitution...he wants generals to obey him like Hitler's did in Germany 1930's/40's! He's been in contact with his buddy Putin recently, and on more than one occasion! With him being in debt for millions and millions dollars, he's subject to bribes from our political adversaries in exchange for national security secrets!!!
Our country will fall under his fascist Project 2025 plans...
Those who vote for him, reflect his evil values....values from the Pit...

[RosannaDAgnillo]

Voting a strong "yay" for news of the butt. Christian women, stop pretending to be all sugar and spice; Phil's news segments are hilarious, and, in the sagacious words of Ali G, help to "keep it real." :)

[itkirk]

I keep staring at Skye's Optimus Prime in the distance. What a NERD!! But that's okay, because so am I with my own Optimus on my shelf of other nerdy stuff. Oh yeah, still watching and typing . . . Great conversation guys!!! I always enjoy your conversations on examining your faith and why you believe what you believe.

[peej]

At 2:11, in my opinion, I believe they missed a glorious VeggieTales opportunity:

"It's been here since show one, and it still doesn't have a name!"

😂. Thank you all for who you are and all that you do!

[annetteveil]

I think it was great that she had a good childhood and her parents did not abuse her with fundamentalist Christianity. That helps her have a more positive outlook on her faith. I did not have that so it was totally negative and also even damaged my brain so bad that I will forever have to take medication and battle depression! There has to be some accountability to these harsh abusive teachings and things need to change. My mother was a religious zealot due to the church and looked at everyone from the outside as the enemy. Also they performed demonic deliverences in front of me as a child. Never was told I was loved but was forced to love Jesus. I do love Jesus now because I know what he taught and what Evangelicals teach and preach is so far off the mark.

[garytorresani]

Evangelicals used to just be Protestant Christians. For example, in 1968, 50 evangelical groups including Billy Graham, Christianity today and the SBC affirmed the right of a woman to abortion in certain circumstances.

This changed with the rise of Falwell, a known segregationist, racist and anti semite, and the fundamentalist moral majority in the late 70s who co opted the term evangelical as they took over Christianity and the Republican Party as part of Nixons Southern strategy for political power.

As the church got more involved in politics and extreme rigid doctrinal positions, i left, never to return. Became part of a liberal church that acknowledged the dignity of all people under the divine with the ability to grow as they are led. It’s so affirming to be rid of the guilt and shame trips I received in the evangelical churches i participated in.