Living Up to Your Values: Guilt, Shame &/or Antisociality | Dr Frank Yeomans

What's the difference between guilt and shame? Feeling bad because you think you've done something wrong is very different from being concerned about how you look to others.

Frank Yeomans describes the difference between guilt and shame, and what it means when you feel only shame and not guilt.

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Dr. Frank Yeomans is an expert clinician who makes use of Transference-Focused Psychotherapy in his practice treating NPD and BPD. In fact, he co-wrote the manual on TFP for Borderline Personality Disorder!

Disclaimer: "Please be advised this video may contain sensitive information. All content found within this publication (VIDEO) is provided for informational purposes only. All cases may differ, and the information provided is a general guide. The content is not intended to be used as a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. If you have specific questions about a medical condition, you should consult your doctor or other qualified medical professional for assistance or questions you have regarding a medical condition. Studio Comma The, LLC and BorderlinerNotes does not recommend any specific course of medical remedy, physicians, products, opinion, or other information.

[lauras]

Guilt exists if you have internalized values. In narcissistic families there are no internalized values, not real love, but only internalized IMAGES, superficial false selves. This leads to shame, not to guilt.

[AlysNdr]

I'm confused. I am BPD, and over my lifetime I have done many things that have caused me personal shame. Self-harm, cruel words to family, cutting people out of my life because I cannot handle the attachment, and botched the break. I feel horrible for the things I did to others, how I disappointed them etc., Now at 55 after years of therapy which began for me at 14 years old, I am in the no more category and have since made concessions to my illness. Sadly, that means no friends. Feeling lonely. No job (my mom passed in 2003 and that broke me...I was adopted which played a role in that horror show and my subsequent non-life). I do have a son, he is 20 now and I need him to get away from me so I don't damage him any more than I already have. He has seen me wanting to die. He sees me not working. He sees me not making an effort to change. He knows I have BPD and I have always told him none of what I may or may not do is not his fault and he can't fix me. I don't want him to feel like a failure. I'm a single mom by the way. He is a wonderful kid. I am encouraging him to seek help so that he can have a beautiful future and not think of me as any sort of role model. Thankfully my family, especially my dad has stepped in to help him believe there is a better way to be.
That being said, it astounds me that people will often (actually everyone who knows the two of us) come up to me and say how I've raised a wonderful boy.
I guess I hope that I can now re-raise myself into a wonderful woman. Doubtful.
caveat: I'm not a bad person.
Thank you very much for these BorderlinerNotes. I watched Charlotte's (I believe that is her name) therapy session and was blown away. It is like BPDers follow a playbook. Odd huh?

[educocult]

This channel talks about the most remarkable subjects in 5 minute videos!

[karenbruno]

I could listen to Dr. Yeomans forever. He was a wonderful voice

[Nobody-Nowhere]

There is a way around guilt, and that is self persecution. You can punish yourself, instead of repairing the other.
I highly recommend listening to this podcast : Episode 79: Shame, Guilt, and Ruminations with Donald Carveth, Ph.D.
This i think is a really important subject, and to understand that the self punishment, self attacks are a way to avoid guilt is important.

[Sarahburrowes]

I LOVE this channel and I love the incredible wisdom of Frank Yeomans.

I recall a slightly different perspective on guilt vs shame, which I THINK is discussed by Brene Brown:

Guilt is ‘I did something bad’
Shame is ‘I am bad’

Frank’s description of guilt seems to be almost a combination of those two… I did something bad and I’m disappointed in myself as the thing so did was not in line with my values’

And I think Frank is here describing shame as ‘other people think I’m bad’… like there is no right or wrong to the person, but when they get caught and others judge them, then that is shame.

For me, I feel the truest ‘shame’ is a feeling /belief that ‘I am bad, But I try to convince myself and others that I’m not bad, and when others see /point out that I’m doing a bad thing it forces me to see /feel the truth that I am bad (which is incredibly painful). Not that there is likely to be any admission by some people (Eg narcissists) of having done a ‘bad thing’ or being a ‘bad person’. Hence blame shifting, aggression, and DARVO (deny attack reverse victim and offender) as occurs in family violence.

I really love Dr Frank and listening to him. He has so much compassion in the way he speaks. I wish I could Be like him. Just so non-judgemental especially in the way he talks about narcissism and individuals diagnosed or on the spectrum. He just doesn't seem to have an ounce of negativity towards these individuals.

[afakkobyab]

"know thyself" is really what it is all about. It was since long ago.

[Visciouscirce]

Interesting take I always say shame= I am bad vs. guilt= I did a bad thing

[edgreen]

Your are so empathic and your ability to hold what the patient said or did and interprete at the correct time when the patient is ready to hear the interpretation. Your tfp is wonderful. Not idealizing you. Just would love to learn that technique of therapy.
So shame is useful in a little ego dystonicity.

[accordionSWE]

Personal experience. It was self serving but one of entry points to my experience of guilt was when I understood that my earlier behavior were a risk behavior and that I had put myself in trouble that were both a risk to my life and health.

[rypoelk]

I feel this is a key difference between narcs and non-narc borderlines

[rohanport]

I always appreciate Dr. Yeomans' insight, however in this instance I found some of the discussion a little confusing.

While we may be talking about slightly different things, I think there are many cases where we feel shame but not guilt which are completely understandable.

For example, if a person is ridiculed by their family for their feelings of depression, they may experience deep shame without feeling any guilt. The person's believes there's nothing wrong with being depressed, and thus doesn't feel guilty, but nonetheless assumes others disapprove of them based on their past experiences and so feels ashamed.

Using the framework discussed in the video, perhaps you could say there is a disjoint between the individuals moral value system and what they believe others perceive as acceptable behaviour?

I do acknowledge that it may be a matter of semantics here, I just wanted to mention that localised feelings of shame without guilt do not have to be an indicator of someone have a poor moral value system.

[dgno]

🤯🤯🤯 guilt vs shame. So simple but I never considered that difference!

[MakeDemocracyMagnificientAgain]

"cause you only care about how you appear!" *sips on his alcoholic beverage*

that was a nice one xD

[martincattell]

I had these backwards but i think i can be excused because they are often used interchangeably.
I thought shame was was an attribute given to my whole self, by myself and guilt was attributed to a behaviour which on reflection may still be true if I consider other people's view of myself to be more important than my ow.
I can attribute shame to myself by the mere thought of what people may think of me and so i can combat that by not reflecting on what others may think of me which requires, ultimately, not interacting with others at al.
But even though guilt is only attributed to a behaviour, perhaps true guilt can only be resolved once that behaviour is rectified or atoned for because the feeling origines from within.
I doubt I'm the only person who confuses the two because they have little sense of internal value or authenticity except through the (often imagined) viewpoints of others.
You could argue this is selfless (ie positive) but it could be so dysfunctional that it leads to anything but positive behaviour.

[hurricane_valence]

Exalent video I myself am diagnosed with ASPD

[raphaelsilverman]

More Yeomans!!! I have learned so much from your videos with him.

[mac-juot]

I had children in foster care, who felt absolutekty nothing toward other

[asmrmetalman]

Do you plan on doing any videos on antisocial personality disorder? There tends to be some comorbidity with bpd sometimes