What happens to consciousness when clocks stop? | Bernard Carr & Bernardo Kastrup

Hans Busstra sat down with Bernard Carr and Bernardo Kastrup to discuss all presentations given at our 'Time and Mind' conference and elaborate further on their own ideas. For instance, both Carr and Kastrup agree that, if you take an idealist perspective, you need multiple time dimensions to account for the decomposition problem: the mechanism by which consciousness with a big ‘C’ resolves itself into consciousness with a small ‘c’.

I. Bernard Carr and Bernardo Kastrup discussing their own views:

00:00 Intro
04:06 Opening
09:42 Bernard Carr on the bridge between physics an psi phenomena
10:50 Scientists don't like mystics and mystics don't like scientists...
11:26 Is the paranormal compatible with Einstein's Block Universe?
19:01 On physicists understanding of time
25:35 What is the relationship between time and mind?
28:18 Bernardo on the three different metaphysical interpretations of time
32:52 Levels of 'selves'
36:21 No philosopher seems to talk about the specious present...
37:32 Einsteins Block Universe
38:56 On Einstein calling the passage of time a stubborn illusion...
40:52 On the importance of careful language
43:16 How a multi-dimensional time model can explain different identities
52:10 On models and reality
54:20 Time in General Relativity
58:15 Time in Quantum Theory
59:21 Lee Smolin's understanding of time
1:00:38 The role of time in different branches of Quantum Theory
1:01:54 Is time fundamental, asked to Bernard Carr.

II. Bernard Carr and Bernardo Kastrup discussing the conference presentations:

1:02:34 On Lee Smolin's 'presentism'
1:08:31 On George Ellis' presentation: There is no way a physical block universe can have come into existence: the future not yet determined!
1:15:05 On Lee Smolin's presentation: The role of qualia in temporal naturalism
1:22:16 On Bernard Carr's own presentation: Making space for time and consciousness in physics
1:26:26 On Kip Thorne's ideas
1:30:39 Bernardo on the undeniability of parapsychological phenomena
1:33:10 On Jonathan Schooler's presentation: Could postulating three dimension of time address assorted disparities between physics and experience?
1:38:38 The Specious Present
1:38:54 On Marc Wittman's presentation: Subjective time during ordinary and altered states of consciousness
1:47:21 On Alex Gomez Marin's presentation: The consciousness of neuroscience
1:52:53 On Paul Davies's presentation: The muddlescape of time
1:59:51 On Julia Mossbridge's presentation: How do precognition and other perceptual anomalies shed light on models of consciousness, unconsciousness and time?
2:25:21 Closing remarks

You can watch all the presentations referred to in this conversation in full length here:

On George Ellis - There is no way a physical block universe can have come into existence: the future not yet determined!

Lee Smolin - The role of qualia in temporal naturalism

Bernard Carr - Making space for time and consciousness in physics

Jonathan Schooler - Could postulating three dimension of time address assorted disparities between physics and experience?

Marc Wittman's - Subjective time during ordinary and altered states of consciousness

Alex Gomez Marin - The consciousness of neuroscience

Paul Davies - The muddlescape of time

Julia Mossbridge's - How do precognition and other perceptual anomalies shed light on models of consciousness, unconsciousness and time?

Credits for intro edit footage

Amadeus, Miloš Forman (1984, Warner Bros)
Interstellar, Christopher Nolan (2014, Paramount Pictures)

Copyright © 2023-2024 by Essentia Foundation. All rights reserved.

[minsungderstandings]

As a 21 year old, I feel very grateful to see the Internet being used for this type of things, seeing professionals and wise people from older generations starting to speak about these issues, even if that many times means they can lose their reputation or even their job. I wish us, the younger generations, can follow your legacy and be the ones to shift the paradigm... I don't think it's impossible, as my generation has overall been raised in a more non-material environment (videos, Internet, videogames, hearing about simulation theories... I'd say we've engaged more with the Internet and information than with the material/physical world). The amount of people my age I've met who think "the material world is just one layer of reality but there's definitely more than just it" is pretty huge I'd say, but not enough. I just wish there were more people from my generation watching this kind of videos.

[bunberrier]

How you know this is the good kind of debate is because the participants are delighted to hear the reasoning of those who disagree, because everyone wins. Their hope for the discussion is an advancement of knowledge and not an elevation of their ego, or the furthering of a narrative they wish to establish.

[FellowHuman]

One of my favourite days of my life was after years of playing guitar, one day i was improvising a guitar solo with a band and i realised i was hearing the music i was going to play before i played it whilst playing in time with the other band members, it was such a cool paradigm shift for my brain.

[matthewlaham]

I've watched this twice, and I'm not ashamed to say I'm not stoned enough to understand this

[FlorisV]

Absolutely gorgeous
Philosophy, physics and Psychology will soon connect with the endeavors in arts. Honoring the lineair worthlessness of words and still searching for the perhaps simplest secrets of our experiences (if we see words as a tool to touch reality with). In the end, transitioning from “either or thinking” I am convinced that the present harnesses every possible concept. Once Consciousness focuses on experiencing time, this allows us to experience potential field energies and particle energy simultaneously, which allows us to transfer idea into matter and vice versa. Fundamentally, conscious experience coinciding with what we call time is flow and timelessness at the same time.

[Meditation]

THE BEST CHANNEL I EVER SUBSCRIBED TO!!! This is absolutely mind-blowing! This is a golden moment! It is so great to know that this topic is being acknowledged and actually evolving because as Bernard Carr has stated... Physics need to advance and its almost inevitable that it Will Advance! This episode was priceless. I love your team and I look forward to seeing Even more great discussions. 🙏❤️

[heinzgassner]

Just imagine a mountain valley that got completely cut off from the world and has the strange metrological phenomenon of being fully in fog 365 days a year. There are some ‘religions’ in this valley, believing in a blue sky but the philosophers and scientists of this valley are debating and debating, many ‘proofing’ that his blue is just an emerging phenomenon of fog. Then imagine, someone leaning the art of climbing and succeeding to actually see the blue sky. This climber (mystic) would have a very hard time when returning and joining the discussions of the scientific elite of this metaphorical valley. Having experienced blue sky or having NOT experienced blue sky makes a big difference. According to my experience, there comes the point in every journey for understanding reality, where you need to learn how to climb and take the risk to leave the discussion table of reasoning and start your first person experiment.

[dennisoort]

I just love these philosophical discussions ❤

[godwho]

Bernardo the metaphysical rockstar and Bernard the dark knight of contemporary physics in one room! Long live Essentia Foundation!

[natashanandini]

It is possible to experience the past, present, and future, and to be everyone else that you see in front of you simultaneously. I have had this experience where I felt I was the people I saw in front of me: mother and child, the dog and the dog walker, even the blade of grass. Objects lose their distinguishing elements as subjective awareness takes over. While the experience is exhilarating and blissful, it is very difficult to function in today’s world while in that state. For one thing, the blood pressure drops uncontrollably, and the bliss even becomes painful.

From a Kashmiri Shaivite perspective, Consciousness and the illusory world are symbolized in the iconic figure of Shiva as the Cosmic Dancer. His immovable, vertical axis represents pure Consciousness (associated with Shiva), while the horizontal axis exemplified by his whirling limbs represents time, space, and movement (associated with his Shakti, energy), which is the world of illusion. Everything exists, all at once, as pure potential within Shiva Consciousness. The world, from the viewpoint of individual consciousness, is a dispersed fragment of the whole.

To experience you being me is a higher state accessible through surrendering the individual I-consciousness. This involves the collapse of the barriers of the individual’s sphere of the mind.

Thank you for this valuable discussion.

[commentjudger]

Note to self. This is not the type of conversation you can listen to— whilst painting a room—and walk away with any degree of understanding. The quality of information is far too dense for casual listening 😅

[spindryer]

To see a World in a Grain of Sand. And a Heaven in a Wild Flower. Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand. And Eternity in an hour. William Blake.

[SOLIDSNAKE.]

Pshycdelics taught me, time is infinite and we are all one

[rachellane]

This was a GREAT discussion! Thank you all! It's great to see the work progressing into deeper and deeper conversations rather than surface discussions. This is how paradigms are shifted and created!

[hairystyles]

And lastly, (sorry for ranting) @44:31 it reminds me of Hegel's "Phenomenology of Spirit." I always try and clarify this debate by using the analogy, "That which sees you through my eyes, is the same as to that which sees me through yours." Meaning, that the supreme consciousness that dwells within all things, is in and of itself, all of those things. We are just coming to the state of awareness that allows us to rationally understand and experience this.

In Lak’ech Ala K’in "I am another yourself" "I AM, is my name forever and ever" there are many instances of this understanding in ancient mystical texts

[ScaryStoriesNYC]

It's all the Bernards in one place! A truly Saintly event!

[theLUCYCOWAN]

"Time" is such a crucial basic component of music that I think it would be useful to include the musical aspect of time in future discussions

[nix]

Bernard Carr's open mindedness makes him the most evolved of all of them 💯💯

[Meditation]

Donald Hoffman would have been an awesome addition to this discussion!! ❤️

[francescoangeli]

Regarding Smolin: as I understand, he thinks reality is truly temporal, so there is real introduction of novelty. The future is open, not already given. The present is special because that's where real dynamics are, where real action is. But it's not a static present, as in certain idealism (which conceives time as illusory and "true reality" as eternal or atemporal hence "static"). It's rather an ever changing present, truly dynamic. So in that regard he's quite close to Bergson’s view, which I summarised in my previous comment.