Ex-JW 'Could there ever be a Jehovah's Witness 'Heaven's Gate?''

(Lloyd's Voicemail #38) Key has observed the fanatical levels of devotion in her Jehovah's Witness family and wonders about the possibility of the Governing Body following in the tragic footsteps of groups like Heaven's Gate.

#voicemail #heavensgate

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[RichD]

This is always a concern of mine because it harkens back to my "wake up" moment. I remember it clearly, I was in a meeting and the elder speaking said, "whatever instruction we get from the organization we must follow without question". I heard this and in my mind I said "um no", then I looked around me expecting to see other with the same shock I had and instead I saw a room of people nodding in agreement, and at that moment I realized I was in a cult.

[Ms.CarolineLR]

Thank you Lloyd for always being mature honest and reasonable. No fear mongering or hyperbole. We want our loved ones still being misled and exploited to be okay.

[skepticspropaganda]

JW’s already demonstrate the potential for a “heavens gate” scenario with the refusal of blood transfusions.

[markweatherill]

The warning sign will be when they order JWs to make sure their last will and testament gives everything over to watchtower.

[krissykatportal]

The Heavens Gate leader doesn’t blink his eyes just like Stephen Lett😳

[kandykayne]

That article really scared me ! To follow orders even if they don’t make sense . I have family still in the organization and it really scares me what the GB might tell them to do .

[EfrainRiveraJunior]

I don’t think something like Heavens Gate would happen, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it did. The Governing Body members are beyond crazy.

[jewell]

I agree. Improbable, but not totally impossible.

[pressleymoore]

Every time my JW mother gets sick, I'm scared for her life in case she needs any kind of medical blood product. She would suicide by refusing the treatment. I had to carry a signed card refusing blood starting at the age of 7. She would have let me die too if I had needed blood.

[jaeddle]

I had an elder tell me during a shepherding call (6 months after I had quit attending meetings by the way) when I expressed some doubts that he would paint his face red if the society/WT told him to because he would know they had a good reason. That was all it took. Been out for 45 years.

[kirstenornelas]

I have had the same nightmare every year since I left the organization. It only happens in the week leading up to the passover and it is always the same. I am in this dream running around trying to get my family to leave the kh because "new light" was announced that everyone was to drink the wine and eat the bread and in the dream the wine has poison in it and they were talking the lives of everyone so that they couldn't wake up and leave the organization. I am running through the dam trying so hard to save my family and the dream always ends when I'm trying to get my mom to leave and she is looking at me as ppl start to die all around us and these men are trying to stop us from leaving the kh. I never see the end or if my mom gets out. Every year since 2007. I had never thought about that prior to the dream and ever since I had the dream the first time I have thought a lot about this and have kept an eye on their stance on who partakes. It truly scares me

[letyourlightshine]

Lloyd, I do agree that it is unlikely. However, I have a caveat to add. I grew up a JW. My father was an elder since before I was born. I have two brothers and two sisters. Both of my brothers along with myself, no longer attend meetings. Both of my sisters still do. We are all grown adults and make our own decisions. One of my sisters is very devout. She is a regular pioneer. She’s been for the last 15 years. Amazingly, we still do talk, and very occasionally spend time together. I don’t push for more time with her and her husband, because frankly I’m just grateful she didn’t totally disown me when I gave up attending meetings.

Sadly, I posed this very question to her. I asked her to imagine she was told to drink the Kool Aid as the followers of the Jim Jones cult did. When I asked her this question, I was fully expecting her to come back with “That’s ridiculous! The governing body would never ask anyone to do that”.

Instead she looked at me and very matter of factly stated “ I fully trust in Jehovah, and the hope of a resurrection. If HE ( meaning Jehovah) asked me to drink Kool Aid, then I would drink Kool Aid”. Notice that she equates instructions from men in NY as direct instructions from Jehovah ( god).

Of course I attempted to reason with her, and of course she equated my reasoning as an attempt from Satan ( the devil) to test her faith. Needless to say, I was walking a fine line, and I ended that conversation quickly. Actually, I was well aware of crossing the line, but I just had to know.

It’s really sad to know that if any governing body ever developed a death wish, make no mistake their would be many dead JW’s.

Before I asked this question, I would go back and forth in my mind as too wether or not JW’s religion was a bona fide cult. Today, as I type this, I have no doubt in my mind that this religion is a cult, and we are truly only one decision away from a complete and utter tragedy.

Having said all that, their would need to be some sort of catalyst for this to happen. I can definitely see that Watchtower instruction, setting up for something along those lines though. When a leader, or in this case leaders make statements that “ you might have to follow instructions that don’t make strategic sense, or however they exactly worded that, it is very worrisome.

Subconsciously, it’s setting up the believer to blindly follow without question. This is what’s being asked of

[clarity]

Do we see anything here in Deborah Layton's writings about Jones Town, that ring true for Jehovah's
Witnesses?
"When your own thoughts are forbidden, when your questions are not allowed and our doubts are punished, when contacts with friendships outside of the organization are censored, we are being abused, - for the ends never justify the means.
When our heart aches knowing we have made friendships and secret attachments that will be forever forbidden if we leave, we are in danger.
When we consider staying in a group because we cannot bear the loss, disappointment and sorrow our leaving will cause for ourselves and those we have come to love, we are in a cult… If there is any lesson to be learned it is that an ideal can never be brought about by fear, abuse, and the threat of retribution.
When family and friends are used as a weapon in order to force us to stay in an organization, something has gone terribly wrong.”
"― Deborah Layton, Seductive Poison: A Jonestown Survivor's Story"

[hanskneefel]

"If they say " jump"!, you don't ask why?, you ask how high"

[xxxxyz]

Remember the direction given in the Philippines to gather at the Kingdom Hall when the government gave opposite evacuation orders to move out of the path of the storm to higher ground. 20 followers were killed when the building collapsed.
The "FAT BOY" GB member flew in for damage control and positive media spin by holding a young girl and her brother who's family was killed due to following the "safe haven" advice. The trusting of the brothers cost 20 people their lives.
Despite the bible's counsel, "do not put your trust in nobles or the son of earthly men", the dead numbers keep rising. The GB are picking off members one at a time with their life direction rules and shunning cultish rules. The culture destroys lives and causes members to be walking dead when they are treated as lowly slaves that dare not voice an opinion or fact that disagrees with them during a chat room break off after a Zoom meeting. Especially is this the case of the non-apologetic narcissistic elders of the Troy Michigan congregation. A real TOAD lives there.

[toomyconne]

They'll say Armageddon happened invisibly and they'll have to kill themselves to get the free houses full of panda bears.

[EfrainRiveraJunior]

I wouldn’t be surprised if the Governing Body pulls a Ron Hubbard and are suddenly “raptured” to a secret location, I mean Heaven.

[fadetoexadam]

2015 international convention Stephen Lett said “One day the GB may ask you to do something that doesn’t seem logical. We need you to obey without question.” A big waking up moment for me.

[Brandoemoto]

So I watched the virtual memorial the other night with my mother cause I knew it would make her happy. The JW cult has caused massive problems in my extended family for generations with shunning, abuse and all the usual JW chaos.

So as I’m watching the memorial explain a condensed version of their beliefs I realized with fresh eyes how beyond insane it all sounds.It’s like a Flash Gordon acid trip/ mafia movie with some intergalactic death ransom that defies any logic or hint of reality. Like it was written by someone on pcp that is obsessed with death.

For the first time it just blew my mind that a science fiction story this absurd is powerful enough to destroy people’s lives. Otherwise functional adults that have jobs and can drive cars let insanely lame stories control their lives. If it can go this far I don’t think a Heavens Gate type scenario is too off base.

[johnnylavery]

Highly doubtful. However remember Steven
Letts talk about painting the Kingdom Hall with a 2-in paint brush. Thought and action control are always Paramount to this organization.