I Hate When Writers Make These 3 Mistakes - John Vorhaus

BUY THE BOOK - THE COMIC TOOLBOX: How to be Funny Even if You're Not

In this Film Courage video interview, Author/Speaker/Artist/Screenwriter John Vorhaus explains the plot structure of comedy and drama in an interview. In comedy, the hero undergoes a change from denial to acceptance of a theme, rewarded with community, whereas tragedy leads to the hero's failure to learn the lesson, resulting in punishment or exile. He mentions examples like "Liar Liar" and "The Great Gatsby" to illustrate the difference.

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#artist #movies #entertainment

[filmcourage]

Do you agree with John about the mistake that Avatar 2 made?

[carried]

John, you hit that nail on the head!! I was once reading a story where the protaganist and her boyfriend were running away from a group of bad guys- forgot why they wanted her. They run into a crowded outdoor mall and stop so she can buy a new outfit. I shit you not!! It wasn't about changing her appearance to fool those persuing her- she wanted a cute outfit. She didn't even change into it- the baddies found them as they left and she ran with her shopping bag. I was so pissed off!! Who thinks that's remotely a good thing for a character to do...other than that author? I stopped reading that book and never read any more of that author's work.

I hate when authors of long series get lazy and write their characters "out of character" and behaving in ways that make no sense, or do something ridiculously stupid to move the plot. It completely ruins the story and I don't understand how they cannot see that or don't care. They get to make up stories for a living, rather than working a mundane and hated job. Integrity in their work should be important.

Another thing I hate is when authors change characters and stories in a long series in unrealistic manners to reflect their own lives or choices- and then lash out at their readers for not liking those abrupt changes. Readers are not close friends or therapists; readers are fans and - most important - paying customers. Same with movies: viewers are fans and paying customers. Seems most movie and show makers and some authors and movie writers have forgotten that.

[jacobmcfadden]

Filmcourage keep giving us these gems. I haven't seen Avatar 2, but the information he gave in the video is priceless.

[michaeljordan]

One of my peeves is inconsistency character behavior no matter if that a hero or villain. When you make a character to come off as believing something then going against it for the sake of a plot twist it feel artificial. We as the audience can know something the protagonist might not know and when you focus on an unlikeable antagonist getting redemption because of some in new piece of information then it come off as a major tone backlash since you lead us up to disliking the character with no hint at a turn around. Or when the antagonist acts as a duetagonist for part of the story and then turn on the main hero despite helping them toward their goal. Unless it to gain a treasure they both want for separate reason. It doesn’t make any sense to help the hero cause if it set the antagonist cause 3 steps back.

[julius-stark]

I have a ton of pet peeves that guide my writing. One of the major ones is I hate "perfect" main characters as well as "genius jerk" characters (Tony Stark is charming and self deprecating and a bundle of anxiety, which are the parts missing from most jerk characters). I also hate forced romances where they two people get together just because with no real chemistry or without their romance getting in the way of what they want. I also hate purely evil villains who are evil because they're evil without them justifying their evil in a way that allows them to see themselves has the hero in a believable way.

[rccc]

So good to hear a smart and articulate individual speak with real passion about what constitutes value.

[andreasboe]

Great interview. Makes one think. Expectations can be a stumbling block for a movie-goer, but a script writer has to make a script that will satisfy viewers with high expectations.

[KathBorup]

I agree with a lot of this. Having said that I think most of the people that enjoy 'the room' don't enjoy it because it has innate value, they enjoy it ironically because it's terrible in a hilarious way.

[thechuckjosechannel.]

Ironically, I'm wearing a Great Gatsby shirt right now. I Agree with John here.

[cbalan]

I don't like this idea that stories are supposed to be puzzles to be solved. Too many movie goers have become "detectives" trying to outsmart the movie and think ahead. If they get to the end and they've figured it out they feel either smart, or bored, cause they "beat the movie". Movies aren't supposed to be a challenge. There's supposed to be more like a roller coaster where you are enjoying the thrill of it. Imagine someone sitting on a roller coaster "I bet we're about to go through a tunnel" "Oh, look, we did...boring" "I figured it out". I also think you have a lot of people with an inferiority complex who don't like anything to be smarter than them. You saw this after the Sixth Sense where everyone had to watch Shyamalan's movies as detectives so they could feel superior. It's like they didn't want to be tricked again. As if the Sixth Sense was a scam that they fell for. It also doesn't help when you have people who are writers or who have watched a lot of movies saying that a story was predictable, and thus not enjoyable. It's interesting how many writers can't seem to sit and watch a movie like a kid would. The only movie critic I can think of who had a ton of experience with movies, but could still watch them like a kid, was Roger Ebert.

[discoveringthei]

Avatar 2: The Way of Water, his daughter has a seizure under water and is comatose.

What makes the scene bad is that the moment the doctors get there and start working on her, they're shooed away to allow the tribal woman to cure her, and she does. Meaning that the entire purpose of contacting them was for nothing. If they had successfully revived her, then this wouldn't be the case.

[Hyperdriveuk]

Yes my thoughts exactly- but my only take is- start with the video with "don't have odd expectations via your own personal values". Like judging a book that creates the tropes that you're judging it by lol. The irony of this is coming from an accomplished writer blows my mind.

[VladWFPReviews]

as John says, checking out of a movie "when a character does something stupid". Totally the way I felt when watching the visually striking yet frustratingly plotted Prometheus - earth's leading scientists decide to encounter a new alien life form after taking off their protective helmets?!? I don't think so!

[ccwoodlands]

Happiness = Reality - Expectations. Expectations high and Reality low means you’ll be unhappy. And vice versa means happy

[mageprometheus]

Thank you, good stuff. I'm lucky I can usually suspend all disbelief and enjoy the CGI and music regardless. Even the worst Marvel movie. If I'm in a misery or analytical mood, I pick what I watch wisely. Mood always affects cognitive processes, especially imagination and tolerance.

[rocket]

Finally… A guy who’s really got his shit together. This guy understands movies. He doesn’t like the stupid ones and neither do I… But he seems to have a real grasp on how things should work. Good for you John, good for you!

[velvetbees]

Author Daniel Keys wrote the novel, Flowers for Algernon. It has a dramatic character arc like the movie Liar Liar with Jim Carey. Keys said he based his novel on what Aristotle said in Poetics, that "A tragedy can only occur for the highborn, because one could only have a tragic fall from a great height." In Flowers for Algernon, the main character is healed from a low IQ to become brilliant. Then he falls from grace because he became evil with his new intellectual powers. The idea that a tragedy involves a hero falling from a great height to create tragedy is intriguing, and worth making note of.

[yerabbit]

Great discussion, really useful way to look at and compare these stories.

[Sci-Fi_Freak_YT]

One of my pet peeves is the “perfect character” archetype. Now exceptions exist like Luke Skywalker but most heroes or villains IMO should be very flawed and learn from each other in some way.

[civilwarfare]

I actually have a similar issue with Avatar 2 but just in a different context even though it ultimately leads to the same conclusion. The issue I had was the bad guys took ages to find to Sully and his family and it took them forever to be vaguely on their trail. And the dude is right in that the movie might as well just ended when they got to the water country considering the fact, the bad guys didn't even know where they were when they got there. There was no looming sense of doom for a good portion of the movie and it bored the shit out of me. The movie did not fucking deserve to be 3 hours long and end on a cliffhanger at that.

But you are right in the grand scheme of things, expectations is everything, have the wrong expectations for anything and you can end up loathing the media in question a lot. Some people are too stupid to see they have to have the same expectations for everything that is hyped.