The Lord's Supper: Roman Catholics vs Lutherans

What's the difference between the Roman Catholic and the Lutheran view of the Lord's Supper. Pastor Wolfmueller digs into it.

There's a free copy of the Large Catechism on the line for the first person to put all the "Pause Quotations" into a comment.

And, don't forget to comment, ask questions, argue, etc.

[ernestperryjr]

alright here goes...all of the pause quotations...

3:42 -> Council of Trent, Ch. 4: On Transubstantiation... "And because that Christ, our Redeemer, declared that which he offered under the species of bread to be truly his own body, therefore has it ever been a firm belief in the Church of God, and this holy Synod doth now declare it anew, that, by the consecration of the bread and of the wine, a conversion is made of the whole substance of the bread into the substance of the body of Christ our Lord, and of the whole substance of the wine into the substance of his blood; which conversion is, by the holy Catholic Church, suitably and properly called Transubstantiation."

8:01 -> "As regards transubstantiation, we care nothing about the sophistical subtlety by which they teach that bread and wine leave or lose their own natural substance, and that there remain only the appearance and color of bread, and not true bread. For it is in perfect agreement with Holy Scriptures that there is, and remains, bread, as Paul himself calls it, 1 Cor. 10, 16: The bread which we break. And 1 Cor. 11, 28: Let him so eat of that bread."

9:06 -> Council of Trent, Chapter 2: That the Sacrifice of the Mass is propitiatory, both for the living and the dead... "...this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the mass, that same Christ is contained and immolated in an unbloody manner who once offered himself in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross; the holy Synod teaches, that this sacrifice is truly propitiatory, and that by means thereof this is effected, that we obtain mercy, and find grace in seasonable aid, if we draw nigh unto God, contrite and penitent, with a sincere heart and upright faith, with fear and reverence. For the Lord, appeased by the oblation thereof, and granting the grace and gift of penitence, forgives even heinous crimes and sins. For the victim is one and the same, the same now offering by the ministry of priests, who then offered himself on the cross, the manner alone of offering being different..."

10:31 -> The Condemnations of the Council of Trent/Trent-On the Sacrifice of the Mass, Chapter 3: "If any one saith, that the sacrifice of the mass is only a sacrifice of praise and of thanksgiving; or, that it is a bare commemoration of the sacrifice consummated on the cross, but not a propitiatory sacrifice; or, that it profits him only who receives; and that it ought not to be offered for the living and the dead for sins, pains, satisfactions, and other necessities; let him be anathema."

11:26 -> Luther's Small Catechism-VI: The Sacrament of The Altar, as the Head of a Family Should Teach It in a Simple Way to His Household: "What is the Sacrament of the Altar? - Answer: It is the true body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, under the bread and wine, for us Christians to eat and to drink, instituted by Christ Himself."

11:55 -> (continued from previous reference) "What is the benefit of such eating and drinking? - Answer: That is shown us in these words: Given, and shed for you, for the remission of sins; namely, that in the Sacrament forgiveness of sins, life, and salvation are given us through these words. For where there is forgiveness of sins, there is also life and salvation."

12:27 -> Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1391: "Holy Communion augments our union with Christ. The principal fruit of receiving the Eucharist in Holy Communion is an intimate union with Christ Jesus. Indeed, the Lord said: 'He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.' Life in Christ has its foundation in the Eucharistic banquet: 'As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me.'"

13:39 -> Council of Trent, Canon V: "If any one saith, either that the principal fruit of the most holy Eucharist is the remission of sins, or that other effects do not result therefrom: let him be anathema."

There ya go! :D I don't think I missed anything lol (and shoutout to whoever probably did this before me hahaha 😂)

[michaelwoods]

Whenever this subject arises, I remember C.S. Lewis, "The command is 'take, eat' not 'take, understand.'" So let's just do what we're told to do and trust God for the rest.

[Caleb_son_of_God]

Sir my pastor recommended you to me this morning and I absolutely love your videos, I’m a truck driver and don’t get home as much as I’d like to and I’ll take all the good teaching I can. Thank you very much for your instructional videos, they aren’t condescending nor do you ever talk down to us. God bless, now I’m going to binge.

[jeremiahgidding]

Thank you brother.I'm a born Lutheran from PapuaNewGuinea and I'm happy to be a Lutheran coz we follow the holy bible to answer everything for Jesus is the only answer.

[glendavidson]

I’m a former Baptist now Lutheran I really appreciate your videos I learn a lot .

[robertkline]

I’m 71 but as a Catholic for the last 30 years (give or take) but with all of the ‘recent’ hullabaloo been thinking about options so following your YouTube programs. You bring incisive clarity. Please continue.

[christinebrown]

You Pastor are a refreshing addition to our faith. I’m a converted catholic for precisely these reasons you researched and then some!! God bless you.

[JamesMC]

I think it is admirable that a Lutheran minister is trying, in a peaceable manner, to give a fair account of doctrines he does not hold. Especially as relations between the two groups have often been far from peaceable.

[waltergondecksr]

I just watched for the first time today. I'm a LCMS member of Our Saviour Lutheran in Green Bay, WI. Converted from Catholic. I'll be watching more!

[MCS]

The Holy Eucharist is the Greatest gift to Humanity

[toomanymarys]

I died when you said "they love the fact that the word mystery is a Greek word."

[actsapologist]

Catholic here: I laughed out loud at the part about the Orthodox doctrine being, "Who knows?"

[bradalms]

The simplicity of gaining "The Word" is one of those gems like "But, we have hope" It gives us joy. I love it.

[shirleyhutchins]

I absolutely love how you share God’s word! Thank you for your dedication to the Lord!

[francanarsie]

John 6 and they walked away, Jesus asked very simply, "will you too also leave me?" He did not ever say, "oh wait guys, just symbolism, come on back."

[josephwiliams]

Pastor Bryan,

I’m a Catholic Educator and must say that you did a pretty good job at explaining transubstantiation and the Catholic understanding of the Holy Eucharist. I’m glad you allowed people to review the actual statements of the Council of Trent as well.

You said midway through the video that Lutherans don’t need Aristotle to help them understand Jesus, but just the Bible and what Jesus said. I agree to greater degree. However, you pulled out Luther’s Catechism to help explain what Jesus already said IN the Bible. What happened to Sola Scriptura?

Just like you use Luther’s various catechisms/discourses as an aid to interpret scripture and theology, Catholics just happen to use Aristotle and different sources as well. The problem is every theologian or church body (ELCA, WELS, LCMS, etc) has their OWN interpretation of Scripture and each thinks that they right and the other is wrong, or not-so-right.

I believe in the Catholic Church’s interpretation of Scripture as it pertains to the Eucharist, just as you believe in Luther’s interpretation of Scripture as it pertains to the Eucharist. One thing I will say is that I think all of our churches do some pretty interesting theological gymnastics to prove their point. Like, don’t the Lutherans believe that Jesus is only present in the Eucharist during the liturgy and communion and after the liturgy He is no longer present? Isn’t that the reason why the Eucharist is not generally reserved in the Lutheran church and if the sick desires Holy Communion, an abbreviated “consecration” takes place bedside? I don’t know if Jesus told us how long he stays in the Eucharist, but the Catholic Church has developed its own theology which says as long as the “accidents” remain and I think the Lutherans have a different viewpoint.

Like you said about the Orthodox, they like the word “mystery”, that they do. I tend to go that route personally.

Whether Jesus is present via transubstantiation, consubstantiation or spontaneous combustion, Jesus said, “This is my Body... this is my Blood” and so it must be.

Peace,

Joseph

[mikeparker]

You have a gift to be able to fascinate and keep people engaged in your teaching. God bless you Wolfmueller!

[PastorBryanWolfmueller]

I know I say "Baptist" in the intro. Sorry. I'll have to do that video another time. This one's about the Lutherans and the Catholics.

[thomastr]

Main mistake: catholics really belive that the Eucaristic Sacrifice is for the forgivness of sins. But they also say that the effect is not ONLY the forgivness of sins but it has ALSO the effects that you read on the Catholic Cathechism. Eresy (from the greek verb aireo, to choose) means that you choose one truth and you eliminate the others. That is what Martin Luter did in this case, and also when he decides that the ONLY source of Revelation is the Bible. If you study the history of the church you will descover that both catholics and ortodoxes have ALWAYS belived that the autentic Tradition (with the big t) and the Magisterium are ALSO sources of the Revelation.
Second mistake: protestants do not really belive that the bread and wine of the Eucarist ARE the body and blood of Jesus. Aristotelic philosophy is just a LANGUAGE to espress this truth and preserve it from mistakes or erroneus interpretation. There is a real identity not a similarity. Saint Paul also used philosophy in order to communicate the truths recived by the apostoles. As a protestant you can freely say that bread and wine are mere simbols of Jesus and you will not be excomunicated.
Third: the concept of priesthood was not invented by catholics. If you read the writings of cristians and bishops of the first, second and third century is really clear that they have the same idea of priesthood catholics and ortodoxes have today. This idea is profundly connected with the concept of APOSTOLIC SUCCESION. Simplifing: if you want to be a successor of the apostols you must be ordained by an apostol or by someone ordained by them with the rite of imposition of the hands. Luterans broke this "line" of apostolic succesion, and there cannot be any real priesthood or pastorhood as you call it.
I invite you to read the writings of the apostolic fathers of the first three centuries to realised that Luther invented something completly new with the idea of "sola scriptura". And that is the reson becouse protestant churches are so many and divided. God bless you.

[christopherscheck]

Hello Pastor. As a former Lutheran, now Catholic, I found your discussion very enlightening. I very much appreciated your reasonable explanation of Transubstantiation (essence and accidents). I also would like to point out that the main difference between Catholics and Lutherans regarding the Eucharist is not necessarily what form the Body and Blood takes on, but in regards to the Catholic understanding of the Mass being primarily a SACRIFICE of ATONEMENT (capitalized for emphasis) as is in conjunction with the Old Testament sacrifice. I believe this was a larger sticking point for Luther than the Aristotelian explanation used by the Latin Church. In fact, many Catholics today don’t realize that reception of the Eucharist on a very frequent basis is something modern in Church history. The primary purpose is the perpetual sacrifice itself instituted by the priest. This is very much in accord with the typological understanding of the Old and New Testaments.

I would like to share a link to a very interesting presentation by a Monsignor who explains philosophically the progression through history of how the Catholic Church arrived at the term of transubstantiation. I found it extremely enlightening: