Episode 6: Jon Stewart: Leaving AA and Staying Sober

Jon Stewart from Brighton, England was kind enough to join me for a conversation which I found immensely interesting, and I hope you do as well. Unlike guests from past episodes, Jon is not a member of Alcoholics Anonymous. In fact, he left AA after fourteen years in the program, and his blog Leaving AA, Staying Sober: New Perspectives on Recovery tells the story.

Jon’s experience certainly isn’t foreign to me. I was once at that crossroad. I was no longer comfortable in AA and honestly had I not learned about the Secular AA groups, I may have chosen another path. I can understand why he left and why scores of others leave. It’s something we in AA should think about. Why are people leaving, and should we care?

During the conversation Jon makes it clear that he is not anti-AA, in fact he wants AA to succeed. His primary complaint about AA is that it’s not sharing the spotlight with other options that could help people suffering from alcohol and drug addiction. I think he makes a good point. After all, don’t we acknowledge that we know only little, that we aren’t the only way? Well if that’s the case, why not be aware of SMART, and Life Ring, CBT or for that matter Naltrexone?

Whether you agree or not, I am sure you will enjoy this thoughtful discussion.

About Jon Stewart
Jon is a lecturer in cultural history, a blogger, and a public speaker on secular recovery. His blog Leaving AA, Staying Sober: New Perspectives on Recovery provides useful information for anyone interested in recovery from alcohol and drug addiction.

[denniswinn]

I left AA 20 years ago and I am still sober. 38 years now. I honestly believe if I would have stayed in AA I would be drunk or dead by now. To those who may be new to AA don't believe that AA is your last chance, it is not.

[velveetaslingshot]

I recently went to my last meeting for good. I hadnt been in a while and felt like going to a meeting. Im four years sober and still going strong. At the end of the meeting an old timer, of course, walks up and says "Havent seen you so long I thought you were cured." I looked at him blankly and walked away. Not "hey great seeing you!", but a canned AA cliche designed to keep you in the rooms at all costs. Because if you arent sitting in that room, every week rain or shine, YOU should feel guilty. You should feel guilty for having no interest in listening to the same boring drunkalogue for the thousandth time. You should feel guilty for wanting to do something FUN on a saturday night. And you should feel guilty because you refuse to let some old timer (the guy who used to get thrown out of bars and killed a kid while driving drunk) tell you how to live your completely normal life. Stay guilty my friends!

[georgeborrero]

I went to 90 in 90 and then one meeting on my five year anniversary. I take personal inventory every day, I make amends when I'm wrong. Thank you AA for the lessons but the rooms aren't for me.

[OatyReading]

I'm seven years out now, emailed Jon eight years ago and he was very supportive and helpful.

Still have friends inside the fellowship, but am happy I made the move.

[KingofBeasts-]

I quit AA, im over it. they say the "promised spiritual awakening will occur." if you work these 12 "simple" steps. You walk into AA recognizing you have a problem with alcohol, therefore you had power over it. Because you stopped drinking. So you were never powerless in the first place.

[pickles]

I was an atheist court-ordered into this religious program. I am so glad I will never again have to listen to the same old crap week after week. One old man, several meetings a week, would remind the room that he had 27 years clean, before reiterating (probably for the thousandth time), "You all know that your BEST thinking earned you a seat in here!" while slowly scanning the room and making eye contact with every newcomer. I truly wanted to approach him and say, "No, it wasn't my best thinking that got me here. I don't think anyone does their best thinking when they're drunk or high on drugs, do you? I also don't think it means I should leave my logic stuck in the umbrella rack at the door when I walk in, or ignore the cognitive dissonance building due to the unhealthy ideas in this 'self-help' program." Currently almost two years clean off heroin WITHOUT AA / NA and enjoying life again.

[zyxwut]

Recovery, even benevolent secular recovery,  generally should be like training wheels: there when you need it, especially early on, but gradually more and more unnecessary as you gain time, experience and confidence in yourself. Addiction is simply a very powerful habit and once we retrain our brains through work and practice to respond differently we have less need for constant support. From my experience recovery was a 2 part process: recovery from alcohol addiction and then recovery from recovery towards reintegrating into society simply as a non-drinker.

[jamesssss]

Six years sober. Was very involved in AA. Chaired meetings, was on the intergroup, has sponsees. Left after 3 years for a lot of reasons people in this thread have mentioned.

AA is not the be all end all. It helped me get on the right track but it just wasn’t for me in the end. One of the final straws for me was when someone told me that me going to my kids soccer games (on a meeting night at my home group) wouldn’t keep me sober. Yupppp seems like I was the one with my principles straight and he needed to check his personality.

[guillaumebousquet]

At this point, I've been in AA for a year and I will be 1 year sober at the end of may. Last night, right after I shared in front of a group, it finally hit: I need to leave AA ASAP! It feels like I'm in a narcissistic relationship. I feel trapped, held back by people constantly looking for validation and expecting me to ask for theirs. I love many people I've met in these meetings and I'm grateful I got their help, but I need to step out. I need to move on with life.

[MaryLeighLear]

I’m on the cusp of leaving. I am not leaving entirely out of resentment, but I don’t like the way they teach you not to trust your inner self and intuition. That you’re independent thought is diseased thinking, your doubt and questioning is rooted in sickness.

I also forced friendships with a lot of people. I never felt like I found my people, like young women working towards a new life with goals and ambitions and living healthy in most ways. It’s my non NA friends who are like that.

I am checking out Recovery Dharma because I am a practicing Buddhist and want to find others I can relate with rather than people who say they love you but don’t even think about sending you a card on your birthday.

[geosutube]

I’m 31 years sober, an atheist. I go to AA meetings in my neighborhood now daily, not for myself, but to find if there is an existing AA member I can help, or to welcome the new AA who is uncomfortable around religion. I am open in my rather traditional meeting so that the members can see that religion is not necessarily important.

[nanamc]

AA is a community which a lot of people have never felt or belonged anywhere, and there are genuine people in the rooms that really want to help without thinking and there are so many benefits than non

[misterluck]

people in CA were only friendly to me when i first came in. because they are told to help people to keep sober. most the time it is not out of love. nice talk.

[denniswinn]

A quote from the big book of AA "Resentment is the number one offender. It destroys more alcoholics than anything else". How many triggered AA people on this thread will admit they have a resentment against people who speak out against AA?
I got your (AA) number I got your (AA) dogma, I know your ( AA) program you can save your shame for the newcomers, they will take it, I won't.

[DaphneMaine]

There is a tremendous rejection to growth in AA.

[shamus]

AA's twelve step process allowed me to write down the jumbled mess that was my perception of my life story. just writing it out and sharing it with someone gave me great relief. I gained a new perspective on my history. Things happen, that's life. Things don't happen to me. The entire 12 step process changed my life forever. Basically, I have nothing to drink over. I only drank to gain relief from my memories. I do pray, but I'm not sure if anything hears it. I hear it and it helps me. My prayers are all of thanks and for acceptance of the way each day goes. AA saved my life and offers hope for people who have none left. God or no God, without hope alcoholics have not much to live for except the next bottle.

[oldschoolman]

AA is an ok place to start but don't make it all your life, It's a good place to help you stay sober at first. The success rate is about 10% or less and some folks there don't truly believe in live and let live and if you don't fall in lockstep with them you get chastised. After 16 years in aa it just felt like a bunch of narcissistic a holes blowing smoke up each other's asses. There are some good people there but for the most part it's just a bunch of judgmental hypocrites who don't actually practice what's in the book. Then there folks who will 12 stomp newcomers and badger them before they can decide if AA is for them. Another thing I saw was folks sponsoring with very little time or still having difficulties in their own lives after many years any have no business playing the role of an advisor I'm so glad I left and am much happier not going. There's some great spiritual teachers on YouTube like Sadhguru and Allen watts, two of my favorites. I guess the best advice I can give you about AA is be careful ! An ex AA friend of mine told me if I ever needed a resentment I could always go back! =)

[davidaguilar]

I left a.a about 5 year ago many of the people I meet there stop talking me I'm talking people that where my friends for most 17 years .that best decision I ever made .thanks to you tube after washing documentaries on what is a cult I'm also a atheist when I finally become honest with myself.

[petemcc]

I haven't been to a meeting in a long time. But have cautiously thought of going to one recently. I miss the camaraderie/fellowship, but not the dogma and toxic gaslighting of the program.

[joelong]

the 12 steps work well for sorting out some things, but the meetings and some of the fellowship has, in some areas gotten most definitely cult like and destructive.
at the very least its a reshaping of the junior high experience. Putting other drunks on a pedestal, worshiping them, clamoring for validation etc, a bit creepy.