Where do Orcs Come From? - Understanding Orc Origins | Lord of the Rings Lore | Middle-Earth

Where do Orcs come from? Were they once Elves, Men or Beasts? Or did they have an entirely different origin? In this episode we discuss the various origins that Tolkien had created for the Orcs, including their creation at Morgoth's hands, and the corruption of the creations of Iluvatar. We also discuss whether Orc Women existed, and we briefly outline the different origins of the Uruk-Hai and Orcs, as we delve into the lore of the Lord of the Rings.

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[gregk]

I certainly do not mean any criticism by this, but it's really nice to hear your voice and the sincerity and love for Tolkien over a professional narrator. I get the pragmatic side and respect that too, but in your own way you do a better job than someone who lacks a real passion for middle earth. What I'm trying to say great job and thank you

[guillaumep]

The twisted elf origin is the best. It just fits the best and doesn't create too many complications.

[johan.ohgren]

I don't see any trouble with orcs having more than one origin. In the beginning there could've been two tribes of orcs. One derived from elves, one from men.
Later these two tribes would cross breeds creating a third, mixed tribe.
Then, there may be additional groups or tribes, the orcs of TLOTR may been the result of crossbreedings among several groups creating the goblin, the orcs and the Uruk Hai.

[TheHornedKing]

I like the idea of maiar orcs. It just sounds cool to have these extra powerful orcs around.

[nanoglitch]

The movies weren't very helpful in clarifying their origin... They reference the corruption of the elves, breeding but then also where they're being pulled fully grown out of earth and slime. I think there's some appeal in leaving it intentionally vague on how/where the dark Lord creates his army since misinformation and deceit fits his character and plays in his favor. Even if it isn't true, the psychological warfare advantage against the elves that they could be twisted and tortured into becoming servants of Sauron would be pretty impactful.

[TheFiendish]

Thanks a lot for your work. I'm diving into the orc topic for years, while looking into different lores. I appreciate your work a lot. At first i diskliked the idea off orcs beeing made of earth/stone and fille with hatred, but when i recognized elves beeing made of earth and stuff as well... I dig it! Espacially when we accept that this was just the first "incarnation" of orcs and they've already been rebellious... yea. too much for a comment ;) Just: thanks a damn lot!

[toyfreaks]

This is one of my favorite videos so far. I also like your personal insight and opinions at the end!

[ldx]

I've waited for so long to hear your unique voice again!
Keep up the amazing work and Legendarium content! love from italy

[unclejoe]

It's a fascinating evolution of origin ideas, and the final idea of corrupted Men seems to me the most logical, but all of the origin concepts have some intriguing implications, with corrupted animals bred with men or elves being possibly the most hideous. The idea of Maiar orcs never occurred to me but makes perfect sense and is very cool in concept.

[EbonKim]

The problem with corrupting instead of creating, is why stop corrupting? Also, that Morgoth could corrupt Illuvatar's creations would seem too strong. The same issue is with why stop creating? What solves this issue is simple. Morgoth was able to create. However, once he himself got corrupted by challenging Illuvatar, he could no longer create. However, he was able to corrupt all his previous creations only.

[davidborg]

I'm glad to hear you're back Karl. Take care buddy.

[alexstewart]

I prefer the corrupted elves and humans. It makes more sense to me.
Nice to hear your voice again Carl.

[TheOtherMwalimu]

Glad to see you back! Was happy to see the notification. Yeah, RL can slow us down

[Enerdhil]

Wow! That was by far the most thorough coverage of the origin of Orcs I have seen anywhere. I thought Steven of The Red Book left no stone unturned, but I heard a couple of origins I never knew Tolkien had expressed interest in. I am assuming Karl got all his various origins from Tolkien's own writings.

[Selandir]

I missed you, I can finally fall asleep to the lore & ur voice

[istari]

The part that is still perplexing is that even by switching the origins of orcs to be corrupted men, you are still left with the issue of them having fëa. Even if redemption is possible for orcs, they come into Arda to do evil so why would Eru Ilúvatar create fëa for them? I suspect the origins of orcs is one of those issues that Tolkien was still wrestling with when he passed away.

Personally, I like the idea that orcs were originally bred from some other sort of beast with some sort of "gene insertion" equivalent from men and possibly elves to make orcs intelligent enough to be useful as soldiers but they would still lack sentience as only Eru Ilúvatar could create that. I also like the idea that some of the orcs (the most powerful ones) were actually Maia in disguise so to speak or descended from such Maia. I'm dubious about the idea of such Maia being able to reform their bodies though. If that could happen, why didn't any of the balrogs return? The only two known instances of a Maia returning in a physical form are Sauron, who had much of his power stored in the One Ring, and Gandalf, who was sent back by Eru Ilúvatar.

[EmperorRadiationEmpire]

Well let me properly explain, when a mommy Orc and a Daddy Orc love each other very much, they raided a cabbage farm.

[markcobuzzi]

I was just wondering, what is the soundtrack that plays at around 2:38? I have heard it throughout multiple videos of yours and am curious to hear how it sounds on its own.

[christoph]

I am very happy to see a video from you again after a long time. While there are many other good LOTR channels on YouTube, I think yours is the best. It's amazing how much effort you put into each and every video. Peter Jackson's films got me reading The Hobbit and LOTR - yes, I admit I saw the films first. 😊 But your great videos sparked a lot of interest in Tolkien lore aside from the two most famous books a few years ago. I look forward to every new video from you and I'm always excited. Keep it up! Greetings from Germany.

[Massive_Lobster]

HE RETURNS! Good to see another post mate, hope you’ve been doing well.