Christian Exclusivism Debate | Arjuna Vs Mark Tan

Christian Exclusivism Debate Arjuna Vs Mark Cheen
This is a repost of a debate I participated in on @tgtengage where I debated Mark Tan Yean Cheen, a lay pastor in Malaysia. My main arguments were that exclusivism is inconsistent with God being all loving because, in many cases, members of different in religions have come to the same conclusion about the main goal of life being God, but have come to different conclusions about what the best way to do worship God is. This is related to the fact that in politics moral disagreement is rare.

People generally agree that poverty and ill health are bad, what they disagree about is what the best way to solve these problems are. An all loving God would accept our sincerity and ignore our mistakes just as a decent human being can respect people who have different ideas of how to best solve problems.

I also argued that members of other religions are not necessarily mistaken, they could just be connecting with God in different moods and understanding different aspects of God.

#Debate #Christianity #theologyunleashed

[Meliann]

This discussion was so respectful and polite. Very nice in this age of quarrel where people can’t seem to control their emotions. We’ll done! 🙏

[depe_dulal]

"If religious exclusivism, the division of humanity into the believers and non-believers, the saved and the damned, and seeking to convert the world to only one true faith is given up, religious prejudice and violence will also disappear."

"Religious exclusivism - that ours is the only true God - easily becomes a form of intolerance, if not hate speech. Has left a trail of ruin and destroyed cultures on every continent. Has no place in the planetary age. Missionaries are a regressive occupation."

- Dr. David Frawley

[KenAmmi-Shalom]

If one excludes Christianity for being exclusivist then, by definition, one is doing so from an exclusivist point of view which means that they must exclude themselves by the very standard they are applying.

[jppj]

Arjuna should we switch from using the word 'god' to 'bhagawan' and from 'soul' to 'atma'? from my understanding the word god comes from the Dutch word 'Got' which comes from the German word 'Gutam" which comes from the Sanskrit word 'Hutam' which references the smoke rising from the worshiping fire prayers (puja); your advice is appreciated.

[SKP-opvd]

"Pastor" Mark seems like a decent guy saddled down with an untenable and obviously false religious ideology but Arjuna handled himself well. I'm glad that I just discovered his channel.

[TheFiestyhick]

I was expecting the Christian to get easily demolished, but he appeared eloquent ( even though his logic is ultimately poor)

Good debate

[Vlogs_Dharma]

This was amazing talk by both of you Guys ; directly from the Heart....

[MrKreinen]

How is this kind of Abrahamic historicism, and fundamentalism able to survive in the face of it's own ridiculousness?
I confess, I'm not bias free, as I was raised with the Sanskrit body of cultural wisdom texts, not the Abrahamic ones. That line "my appearance, my doings, and my disappearance" was a vary meaningful verse to my dad, and while I was inspired by what he'd see in those lines, I think I always interpreted it differently than him (though it has many meanings). 
That notion of the lokas as a soul cosmology skien with the Narak of punishment-education, or even this realm's "rose-and-the-whip, " is allegorically described wit the metaphor that it's teleristic, but I don't think that the notion of it being punishment is accurate; the punishment-education might better be understood in the modern language of psychology's distinctions with the term "Natural Consequences." Consequences from impersonal dynamics that enable learning are different from artificially induced, and rationalized pain, deprivation, injury, loses, or other form of "punishment" inflicted by another person upon you (which they rationalize as occurring "for a purpose") is not what a wise loving god would do.

[buffendene]

Would H.D. Goswami be willing to write an essay on religious experience and what he thinks of it?

[adityanair]

Krishna and Shiva are friends dude and their devotees are also friends and respect each other teachings as We Know Shiva Is Called a Adiyogi And Known as The first who Brought Yoga to attain Spiritual perfection and Krishna also Tells that Yoga Is One way we can Attain Spiritual perfection .
I don't fight With Any Shiva fan because I am too and I am a Krishna fan too both are awesome bro ☺️👍

[uninspired]

If benevolence is a goal, the Hindu model of reincarnation is far superior to a Christian exclusivist, one and done model. Whether either model actually align with reality is a different question. The christian response to these hard questions always seems to come back to preaching, and not actually address the topic.

I do greatly value the search for understanding of what is real, though my journey has taken me to atheism. Is this in an of itself punishable in the Hindu model? Put another way, is my form of skepticism considered a sin? Is lack of belief potentially included in the universal way Hare Krishna views us?

[adityanair]

I slept And Missed Few parts of this video 😅

[alika]

Good Job Arjuna, I hope you debate more Christians to refine your understanding, this guy in my opinion didn’t do the best job in defending the position. Where I would argue that God is a personal God shown in three persons from the Bible over the thousands of years that the Bible takes place. where in all those years it is shown to be the same God with the same motive which is to care for Humans to gain back the position of relationship with himself through purifying them with a sacrifice and he has initiated that once for all sacrifice with his Son Jesus which was his plan from the beginning. This would then contradict any other Faith because it is not the same plan which The God of the Bible has planned. Not here to argue with commenters or you Arjuna but just stated where I would’ve argued. I do wish you the best from one electrician to another and pray that you can see how Gods exclusivity is to insure that by His hand and work we will all be saved through his son Jesus Christ. Have a good day brother Arjuna!