World Building: Middle-earth vs. Westeros, explained

Lord of the Rings, Tolkien’s world is characterized by its mythological and moral clarity, with a rich and detailed history that serves as the backdrop for a straightforward struggle between good and evil. Game of Thrones, Martin’s world, on the other hand, is marked by its political complexity, moral ambiguity, and a more fragmented historical backdrop that reflects the unpredictable nature of human ambition and power. Both approaches to world-building offer unique and compelling experiences in their own right.

Time Stamp:
0:00 Origin of the Universe
0:42 Timeline and History
1:29 Tone and Themes
2:05 Religions and Beliefs
2:38 Death and The Afterlife
3:09 Magic and Mythology
3:45 Political Structure
4:06 Scale and Scope of the Story
4:40 Influence of Real World History
5:13 Representation of Good and Evil
5:43 Diplomacy and International Relations
6:23 Gender Dynamics
6:55 Sexuality
7:15 Social Hierachies and Class Structure
7:55 Technology and Science Advancement
8:25 Geography and Limits
8:59 Weather and Climate

[beep]

"LOTR themes have a clear distinction between good and evil" The main theme is the weakness of the human heart, its easy corruption and temptation, a metaphor for sin. It's a lot more than a fairytale of good vs evil.

[ThomasAlanWayne]

Technology static in LOTR? Did you forget that Isengard, and Saruman represent industrialization. Something Tolkien hated but nonetheless present. There are more advanced weapons and let’s not forget that Saruman creates presumably a bomb, the “blasting fire”

[digit-zero]

There's a lot, I mean a lot wrong about middle-earth here... in almost every bit. About morality, optimism, and also ignorance about the age of the trees and so on which come before the first age. It seems to focus almost completely on the events in the Lord of the Rings rather than taking the darker and harsher wars with Morgoth into account, which had many tensions among the elves and between elves and dwarves and men as well as the constant threat of the creeping darkness which slowly consumed Beleriand from the north. Many of the men also sided with the darkness rather than the light and the power in the one ring causes corruption in all who look upon it.

[arthasmenethil]

Tolkien walked so Martin could run. I love game of thrones but nothing can be compared to the grandeur that is Middle earth

[r.rsmith]

It's ironic how Tolkien comes from a time of war and his works are the opposite of it and GRRM comes from a time of relative peace and his works are literally the polar opposite of it...

[Mikenolan]

Wasn’t expecting that ubrupt cut off at the end but great vid

[rafl]

In the Middle Earth nobody knows what happen after death, that's exactly what caused the fall of Numenor

[PinguU-te]

The technology in lotr static? The dwarves technological advancements were impressive. Also didn’t Saruman create bombs.

[richmondlandersenfells]

-There is literally a political struggle in the history of gondor and numenor (especially during its golden age)
-Numenor had an almost gender equal dinamics when it comes to rulership.
-You simply failed to mention that Haleth was a warrior and ruler of her people being one of the first heroes of the edain (humans) and is accompanied by female bodyguards.
-Dwarves possessed great craftsmanship and architecture. But Numenor had a more advanced military and industrial might and artistry.
-there was kinstrife within the house of eorl the young. And occupied the ancestral homeland of the Dunlendings whom they perceived as "wild men"
-no one in middle earth is safe from natural elements. Catastrophic weather nor bubonic plagues.
-Men including the elves are equally capable of atrocities as well as heroic deeds without any allegiance to a higher power. By means of ethnic cleansing, slavery, incest, and usurpation.
-I SUGGEST YOU READ THE BOOKS FIRST MATE.

[sirsaber]

To say the technology of middle earth is static is wrong. 1. The technology of Mordor and of Isengard reflects industrialization of there resources and land with siege weapons being of a more cruder in design and more menacing. Giving a more phycological warfare aspect to their enemies, this is seen in Return of the King with Grond " The Wolfs head" a massive Siege Ram, siege towers and siege catapults firing the served heads of Gondorian soldiers in the siege of Minas Tirith. As well as the siege of Helms Deep with the bombs created in Isengard, the ballista used to fire the rope for the ladders. 2. The Numenoreans were master shipbuilders and naval navigation congregating in several colonies throughout middle earth with a huge trade routes. The descendants of Numenor, being Gondor and Arnor were able continue their predecessors work with the likes of fortress like Minas Tirith, Minas Morgul, Osgiliath, Pelargir, Fornost, Annuminas. And some of their defenses put in place being that of Trebuchets, Siege towers, quality of arms just to name a few.

Were as in GOT we are shown realistic adaptions of Siege Warfare with Trebuchets, Rams, Naval Vessels, and other tactics. Yes medicine is explored a little bit more in GOT then LOTR with the Ingredients. But the Portrayal of these advancements are through the Character's such as when Cersei wants to know if the Mountain can be saved and Pycelle advise that nothing can be done for him. Qyburn steps in and is able to bring the Mountain Back in a zombified state. To clarify I am basing the GOT depiction form the tv show and not the book. As far as Siege Warfare goes it pretty bad I mean the battle of the black water showed and excellent use of wildfire, no use of catapults or trebs throughout that battle. battle of the bastards had no siege weapons, the siege of riverun is the only depiction that shows proper siege warfare when Jamie and Bronn arrive to assist the Freys.

[sleigh.]

I think the Men in middle Earth are generally morally grey. While Elves and Orcs are metaphors for the nature of good and evil.

[mjl]

i know you didn’t use that picture of the fake galadriel over cate blanchett..

[biglion]

I like both a lot, and both are my top two favorite worlds in all of fiction. ASOIAF (Not GOT) is more like "We live in that world and only know what the scholars and historians have recorded, " and the rest are up to our imaginations. While LOTR is like "Here's who made the world, what everything is, go and have fun, " and it's done by an extremely talented and caring man who treated this world how it should be treated, with care and love... (Looking at you Amazon...)

[kingofmetal]

Amazing video lad. Makes excelent material for future writers

[t_ylr]

You're not wrong about ASOIAF being more inspired by real history, but it's also heavily inspired by norse and celtic mythology. Bran and the magic of the weirwoods borrows heavily from the story of Odin and Yggdrasil. Also you could that the over arching story is inspired by Ragnarok. Not a lot of fantasy authors aren't inspired by some mythology lol

[ItsJustAka]

Westeros doesn't have a Morgoth or a Sauron. When (in the TV series) they had to face something similar, although smaller in scale, the world united against it. Sure, Cersei betrayed them, but there were also betrayals in Tolkien's works.
And please, Cate Blanchett is Galadriel!

[namitgarg]

Well-researched analysis. I think it is silly that people are comparing these two series because Lotr is the classic pioneer of the fantasy genre and a brilliant good vs evil story with good storytelling, and characters. In contrast, Got is a more realistic story of wars and betrayals, alliance and human nature. Both are some of the best fantasy genre has to offer.

[brodyestes]

IMO the best thing you can do for both of these works is to not compare them

Yeah, they are both fantasy. But they represent two distinctly different interpretations of that genre.

Tolkiens work is intimate, mystical, and deeply intentioned with themes and stories along the way. GRRM's work is gritty, almost realistic in its nature despite being fantasy, and explores much darker yet ever present human themes.

Lord of The Rings and their protagonists are models we aspire to emulate. Aragorns effortless masculinity and humbleness, Frodos and Sams enduring spirit and friendship, Theodens struggle and acceptance with mortality and the qualms of leadership, and many more.

Game of Thrones has no direct protagonist in my eyes. We have POV chapters on people from young children, to monstrous men (Euron ahem ahem). None of these chareters represent some peak form of some moral ideal that we must strive to be. In fact, if I heard anyone tell me they aspired to be like Jon Snow, who cuts mens heads off for disobeying him, takes children away from their mothers, and allows men to be burned at the stake by religious zealots. I would think you are a crazy person, and probably submit a police report.

ASOIAF charecters represent the gritty reality that many of us face. Our lives are not fantasy tales where the guy gets the gal, and evil is banished in whole till the end of time. We all have evil inside of us, and thats what makes Game of Thrones so awesome to read. You KNOW the person you are reading is a bad person, but you are eager to see their story completed because there are real distinctly human themes that george tells.

When you want to compare worldbuilding, I think its important to understand just how HUGE georges story is. There are over 2, 000 named charecters in a Game of Thrones. 9 Great houses and hundreds of smaller ones. All with their own motto, creed, banner, and story. I have read both series, there is simply MORE in georges. More books, more prequels, more everything. Hell, theres a book dedicated solely to the reigns of the Targaryens that is longer than the fellowship by 200 pages jam packed with worldbuilding lore.

[sunnyshieldsvo]

"Lotr doesnt focus on the political tensions if nations" technically true of the Lord of the Rings story, but the extended legendarium (particularly the 2nd age) is full of it

[justthinkingoutloud]

0:53 The First Age is not the beginning of Middle Earth's timeline. The three ages referred to in the video are only the ages of the sun, and a blip at the tale end of a vast history. Arda's history begins with the age of the great lamps. When those are destroyed by Morgoth, the trees were planted in Valinor, and the elves were born under the stars during the age of the trees. When Morgoth destroyed the trees and the Noldor pursued him from Valinor to Middle Earth, the sun was created and men awoke, thus beginning the ages of the sun.

2:23 While you're right about the role of religion, or lack thereof, in Tolkien's world, it's not true that everyone knows what happens in the afterlife. We know what happens to elves, but the fate of the souls of men is presented as the great mystery at the thematic heart of much of the grand story.