Owen Jones meets Akala | ‘The black-on-black violence narrative is rooted in empire’

Akala's name is always near the top of the list when I ask for ideas for people to interview. I finally managed to catch up with him before the launch of his book Natives.

We discussed the legacy of empire and the direct link to knife crime and the black-on-black violence narrative surrounding it. We also talked about whether increasing police numbers is a real solution to the problem and the hypocrisy of some politicians' outrage at everyday racism in the UK.

The Guardian YouTube network:

[javednazir]

"Nobody colonises another group of people because they love them and want them to have democracy" reality check

[OwenJonesTalks]

Thank you to all of you who suggested Akala. Sorry it took so long to arrange! Hope you enjoy it.

[AlwaysWithMeaning]

Great interview, but too short! Akala is someone I can listen too all day. Legend.

[jesussleftleg]

Akala the definition of living in the past racism will always exist with a mentality like his its imprinted on his brain he'll look for it anywhere its not

[AshleyMillsTube]

I'm far more cynical than Akala. I think the establishment knows full well what solutions would work. How could they not? The scientific evidence showing the causal pathways between child abuse/neglect and neurobiological damage is crystal clear. The brain imaging data is not controversial, neither is the observation that almost without exception the most violent individuals themselves suffered serious physical and sexual abuse as children. Thankfully there are many exceptions going the other way.

We know which socioeconomic conditions foster abuse and neglect, we know the mechanisms by which abuse leads to neurobiological changes, we know how these neurobiological changes manifest in behavioural deficits that predispose people towards violence, and we think the solution is to create more prisons or employ more police? This is as stupid as understanding what causes tooth decay and then proposing that training more dentists will solve the problem.

The reason they don't want to acknowledge the etiology of violence is because mopping up after crime pays handsomely, it also guarantees that vast inequality persists. They need depth to society because the greater the gulf between the bottom and the top, the greater they feel. Vast inequality must persist for them to live the way they live. That's why they pretend they don't know the solutions.

Perhaps that's true, or perhaps the truth is even scarier: the people making the decisions are themselves neurobiologically damaged through boarding schools and neglectful workaholic parents. The violence they permit in society is a wilful projection of the terror they themselves felt as children. They are compelled to be complicit in its perpetuation in the same way child victims of severe abuse are compelled to project it onto others.

[whatifgodimagineinfinity]

Akala is good at lyrics and he can talk well, but he managed to go through the entire interview without making any single factually verifiable claim

[malarauko]

That line about it being easy for people to be outraged about the forms of racism engaged in by those with no power, but difficult to get people to see the racism of those with lots of power. Akala says stuff that just makes you feel like an idiot for not seeing it before. Like it's such an obvious thing, and your kind of subconsciously cognisant of it without it really clicking home what it actually means.

[nickmann]

Whats the British empire got to do with a black kid knifing another black kid through the heart in Peckham.

[djpeekay]

He is very intellectual but I don’t agree with the violence of black people in this country stems from the legacy of the empire. The communities that came from the Caribbean in the 50s and 60s were not violent and wanted to work hard. It’s the subsequent generations that have fallen into this perpetual cycle that education is not cool, but being a “gangster” is. I have black friends who are professionals but still like to portray that image. My wife is a teacher and she deals with a wide range of ethnic groups, and she says the black kids are one of the hardest to turn around. They themselves as a community need to stop blaming others and change it themselves. I do agree that they were the worst victims of colonisation. I am Asian and our lands were also stripped of our riches and Asian countries are just as brutal as African countries, but there is some difference in the values at home that has made the Asian communities generally more successful. I have worked in the Finance and IT sectors in London, and there is a real lack of Black employees. That is probably down to some type of institutional racism as well as the fact that there aren’t enough Black people who are wanting to go into white collar jobs. If the parents push their kids to get the right education when at school, things will change, but from what I have been told the parents are generally are not parenting in the right way.

[tmac]

The knife crime epidemic has nothing to do with race and everything to do with culture

[cbarclay]

There is an easy way to dispel the 'black-on-black violence narrative': the government and police should release more information on people convicted of murder including their ethnicity. I look forward to Akala demanding a new era of openness.

[jamesedwards]

Interview Douglas Murray, or is he the wrong type of Gay Owen?

[lavenderkitchensink]

The interview should have been ten minutes longer. Akala was just getting started.

[JY-ukpz]

I’d honestly love to see Akala go up against American conservatives such as Steven crowder and Ben Shapiro. It would be absolutely fascinating.

[jamielopez]

Should perhaps be mentioned that the British empire abolished the trans Atlantic slave trade and policed this. It was also British missionaries who helped to end the East African slave trade. Lots of huge failures Of The Empire but should also remember to successes.

[theoilandgasresourceportal]

Akala is the play thing of white middle-class liberals. They interview him because he says everything they want to hear

[charliejohnson]

"The idea that groups were ranked hierarchically by inferiority and superiority really only arose in the 19th century and really only arose in Europe". This statement is an outright lie and Owen just lets it slip through like it's a fact because Akala said it and he sometimes has some good points on knife crime. Every human civilisation/empire/religion thinks it's superior to everyone else, from ancient Egypt to the Ottomans, including the British Empire.

[elingles]

You cannot put this any other way. ''This is about 2 knob jockeys, having a conversation about white guilt''.

[BioDieselEstate]

Owen, I am glad you said that you were fascinated because, there were times when your facial expressions looked like you were baffled.

[everyman]

Journalists: Any question

Akala: empire, legacy, colonisation.

Repeat.