Debating Panpsychism | John Horgan & Philip Goff [Mind-Body Problems]

01:04 Philip’s 2019 book, Galileo's Error: Foundations for a New Science of Consciousness
12:06 What’s the difference between panpsychism and philosophical idealism?
29:32 John: Solipsism is “an absolute impediment to a truly scientific theory of consciousness”
42:19 Does panpsychism “cheat” when it comes to philosophy’s fundamental problems?
50:44 The moral dimension of panpsychism
57:27 Hallucinogens and mystical experience

John Horgan (Stevens Institute of Technology, The End of Science) and Philip Goff (Durham University, Galileo's Error)

Recorded June 30, 2020

[SandipChitale]

Hmmm...there is that word - Scientism. Please note that it is clever word invented to criticize without giving reason.

[larrycahoone]

Very nice conversation. The reason evolutionary emergence is different from materialism, dualism, idealism-panpsychism is that it recognizes many levels of natural processes which cannot be reductively explained (but can be fallibly understood). There are multiple "explanatory gaps, " not just one BIG one between "the physical" and "human self-consciousness." Lots of amazing steps studied by different sciences. Asymmetrically dependent levels are no less real than what they depend on. Anyway...

[frankfeldman]

As is usual with discussions like these, you get to the end, and you're left with absolutely nothing.

[monkeytrousers]

This is great....I used to watch John and George on Science Saturday every week....very interesting conversations..they were way ahead of the did garage band physics experiments...haha.

[solomonherskowitz]

That last part had me laughing so hard 🤣🤣😂😂 interesting discussion

[CancelledPhilosopher]

This is one of the most interestong debates on pansychism that I've ver seen. I agree with John Horgan's perspective on consciousness. Psychedelics convinced him that consciousness is too weird to be accurately described by any philosophival position. Materialism, dualism, and idealism/panspychism are all inadequate explanations.

[mediocrates]

Unconstrained homeostasis; any challenge to stability (comfort) has a qualitative aspect. Everything else is context. In the case of neurobiology, *electrotonic* homeostasis.

Too bad about that catholicism; i quit when i was 5yrs and the rest of my family the next weekend.

[askingEveryone]

Thank you for the great interview! It's one of my favorite dialogs conducted by Jon here on MeaningofLive.tv, perhaps due to Philip's eloquent and light-hearted delivery.
I think panpsychism does not resolve the matter-consciousness duality though (that's from as little I learned from this video). At some level, matter still has to be some kind of abstract concept (what are quarks made from? - I'd certainly prefer them to be made of wood :) ).
I, humbly, advocate for the "universe is a simulation, a video game" approach, where some Primordial Consciousness (PC or God) is the programmer, the computer, the program, and the player. With this approach, PC would have to keep track of the "playing field" (space, time) and every elementary particle. In this sense, every elementary particle would have consciousness as it has to be attended by PC/God. Not sure if this can be called panpsychism or just idealism. This model would also reduce a number of "primary entities" (i.e. those, whose existence/appearance we cannot explain as being derived from other entities) from "space, time, matter, consciousness" to at most "time, consciousness", which makes this approach "preferable" (as in Occam's Razor).
I also think that there is potential for "publicly observable" consciousness experiments, though it very hard to conduct. There are narratives that describe shared psychedelic trips or meditation experiences. Last year I attended my first Vipassana retreat and there had two incidents, when I'd think a supportive thought to somebody in the room who showed an audible sign of distress (like somebody sobbed, etc) and being suddenly "hit" with a wave of loving/grateful energy that I'd think was another consciousness. In the second case I know that it was a particular old man who had leg trouble (there were some indications that he was aware of the "exchange", but I did not talk to him about the experience, which I very much regret now). BTW, I'd recommend Vipassana as an effective way to proceed with "exploratory meditation" (disclaimer: I'm really a beginner).
I hope this adds to the discussion, thanks again!

[bakersox]

Phillip, regarding your closing comment: Consider what insights your kids might benefit from through you if you don't wait for them to have grown up first. Meanwhile, they might beat you to it, despite your best intentions. Better to know something about it first hand, IMHO, than to fear the worst - or to rush in late!

[jacobshell]

I know it's not Goff's expertise, but I think some discussion of parallels and overlap from the "quantum consciousness" and "quantum panpsychism" groups should have come up. Hameroff and Penrose worth mentioning. Microtubules in brain worth mentioning. The delayed-choice quantum-eraser experiment where photos appear to communicate with themselves slightly backwards in time in order to respond to or outflank the experiment's design also worth mentioning. The listeners need to be given sense of how panpsychism has elegance both as outcome of deductive philosophical reasoning, and also as accounting of laboratory empirical/observational mysteries.

[chrertoffis]

"I feel like this is a kind of medieval, narcissistic backlash".

Wow, how illuminating. Great argument.

[tolgacan]

Man, I'd change the background. It is just bizarre. And your continuous hand movements ruin the whole thing, in any case.

[bjpcorp]

Consciousness is a either a universal or multiversal entity which pervades all material reality.