F-4C Phantom II vs F-104C Starfighter: 1960's USAF Sled Dogfight | DCS

We use DCS to simulate dogfights between two mach 2 capable USAF fighters from the 1950's and 60's: the F-4C Phantom and F-104C Starfighter.

0:00 Details
2:07 Predictions
2:47 1 vs 1 Battles
16:46 4 vs 4 Battles

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[drrocketman]

I don't care if she's dangerous, I don't care if she's obsolete; the F-104 Starfighter is a beautiful plane, and the NAME of it alone gives me goosebumps

[solomongray]

I love a good merge! F104, used to love them, and the B-58 Hustler, the two of them were concept given form, make your plane like a missile.

[MrGreyZ]

Don't forget to drop maneuver flaps for the 104, it makes it turn as well or better than the Phantom, and do not slow down below 400

[LudosRegem]

Always love the f104 videos
My grandpa worked as a mechanic in Memmingen Germany. He always let me sit in the starfighter in the hangar and even could stand on the taxiway Turing takeoffs that was amazing and will stay in my memory for ever.

[madaxe]

With fighters of this vintage, I would submit that rear-aspect missiles (AIM-9B’s or -P’s) would be more appropriate as a test of their relative strengths/weaknesses in a dogfight. All-aspect heaters disproportionately favors simply getting a nose-on attitude to the exclusion of other considerations. That said, it does make the fights a lot faster and less of a chess match.

[knightonwarbeck]

PUT-A-104-IN-YOUR-CAP, CAP: Both the F-4 and the F-104 fought best in the vertical yet both were fighting horizontally. LOVE my GR videos!
Former F-104G pilots will tell you the F-104G will sustain 6G @400-420 kts, and when booming after your zooming, best to attack at 600-700 kts. Simba got it right using the takeoff or maneuver flap. The 104 has a MASSIVE energy advantage yet it was not exploited today.
CAP, it was an improvement today. Colonel Warbeck - who flew both - has given half a thumbs up for the 104 work today.

[lohrtom]

Cap, for decades Pittsburgh was a major steel producing city. And had the air quality that came with it. Many of the mills have shut down. My summer home is in Pittsburgh and the decay is evident.

[stub]

The F-104 was a widow maker due to the downward firing ejection seat. Survival from it was really low. It also had the nickname of the "flying stovepipe"!

Even though the F-4 is a brick with wings, in the right hands it will be a hard to handle. Back in my young days working on the F-16, I talked to some pilots about which planes gave them the biggest trouble. They all agreed it was the National Guard F-4, for 2 reasons. One, the pilots had been flying that airplane for decades, and that meant that plane, not just that type. Two, the F-4 will do what the pilot tells it to do, the F-16 computer will limit the aircraft based on programing.

[hoss]

Both aircraft are beautiful pieces of engineering. Hopefully at some point i can get both of these in dcs

[deadmeat]

That single-engined Cap kill should be credited to Flight Captain J. Pickles!

[winstonsmith]

Really enjoyed seeing these classics go up against each other.

[sosigakaweinerman]

Jeez, watching these was painful.. So many missed opportunities but I guess I got a little too used to watching Growling Sidewinder!

[daniellee]

Beautiful landing at the end. Still longing for an English Lightning! It was a hot rod interceptor.

[CheekkyNandos]

The Starfighter has got to be one of the best mods!

[ivorharden]

How the F104 ever stayed up in the air with those small wings is mind boggling. J79 engine is one hell of an engine.

[seskorirkeashimrui]

fights like this makes we wonder if the F-4E with the agile eagle modification will come along.

[rogerpennel]

The F-4 might be more maneuverable than the F-104 but with an external gun, the F-4 has a lot more drag. Although the power-to-weight ratio might be similar I think the F-104 probably retains energy better. It will be interesting to see how much better an F-4E with slats is.

[chdnorm]

I would love to see a showdown between the F-8 and the F-104. They’re very much contemporary designs.

[sharkk]

The phantom is my favorite aircraft, especially some of the later one ls with the agile eagle, the f4s with that were actually pretty damn maneuverable

[davidcanoy]

The planes were very well matched. It was fun to watch. Thanks for the effort. O7