Atheist STUMPED By How MATH Points To GOD (Epic Conversation!)

In this video, Stephen Meyer and Michael Shermer discus the perennial question: is Math invented or discovered? And if discovered, whose mind did it come from? Enjoy!

[JaylLaf]

Did you know that the Bible tells us _when_ these laws that govern the universe came to be? In Proverbs 8:22-31, Wisdom is speaking:

_“The Lord acquired me at the beginning of his creation, before his works of long ago. I was formed before ancient times, from the beginning, before the earth began. I was born when there were no watery depths and no springs filled with water. Before the mountains were established, prior to the hills, I was given birth — before he made the land, the fields, or the first soil on earth. I was there when he established the heavens, when he laid out the horizon on the surface of the ocean, when he placed the skies above, when the fountains of the ocean gushed out, when he set a limit for the sea so that the waters would not violate his command, when he laid out the foundations of the earth. I was a skilled craftsman beside him. I was his delight every day, always rejoicing before him. I was rejoicing in his inhabited world, delighting in the children of Adam._

[ingaz]

“Mathematics is the language in which God has written the universe”
― Galileo Galilei

[seankenney]

I’m convinced Michael Shermer, and atheists like him, don’t want to believe in God. It’s not about evidence for him, he doesn’t want God to be real.

[christopher_ecclestone]

Most mathematicians agree that Math is discovered, not invented.
They see themselves as kind of archaeologists uncovering more information the deeper they dig.

[robfielding]

I was a mathematics teacher for 4 years and then a lecturer for 33 years. The more mathematics I learnt the more I realised just how much more there was to discover. I am not particularly religious but as time passes I see more evidence of a creators handiwork in the universe (or even universes!).

[d.d.]

Every time I hear Stephen Meyer having these sorts of discussions with people of opposing views it stands out to me how gracious and complimentary he is towards the person on the other side of the argument. That's really refreshing in our modern combative culture.

[jacobembry]

Callen was so proud of himself for remembering the pythagorean theorem lol

[hankhooper]

I like Meyer so much! He is both super intelligent and super gracious to the other person. And he always seems ready to answer objections with that grace. Not defensive or haughty.

[DocAnaStasia]

I myself went through the same thing. I was a staunch atheist at the start of my science career. I then went agnostic. Now through colleagues and working in the field I can say that I finally understand how God works through us and have found religion. I find these conversations interesting. Thank you for posting.

[NoThankYouToo]

“At some point, I don’t even know what I’m talking about. …”
The single most intelligent thing Michael Shermer has ever said.

[Paul-idzt]

Fractals and the Mandelbrot set are mind-blowing, showing that there's infinity in a finite universe through mathematics

[offthematrix]

I have programmed FM synthesizers for years and noticed that the frequency ratios that are needed to emulate acoustic instruments like a French Horn are ratios that correspond to the Fibonacci Sequence. The sequence can be found in the proportions of biology through out nature. I use the sequence as frame work for when I program instruments. The realism of my sound programs for the DX7 go way beyond any of the patches I find for the instrument. So what I discovered supports Stephen Meyer's points.

[circumnavigator]

Michael Schirmer really does not do credit to the scientific community. Being a professional cynic is not being a professional scientist. Schirmer refuses evidence that slaps him in the face and then gaslights those who oppose him. Thinking specifically of his stupid interaction with Bill Napier, a leading comet and impact scientist. Refusing his studies and evidence for no reason and then smearing his critics. Platforming him is like having all the establishment present at once. He is the hive mind of "the experts". This particular performance is amusing, the soul crushing immutability of math leaves no ambiguity for him to gaslight through. Great video

[David-psrz]

“Not everyone agrees with that” and “that’s not necessarily the case” are not very compelling rebuttals.

[VictorHarrys]

9:25 “At some point, I don’t even know what I’m talking about.” That is the only bit of wisdom Michael offered unto himself. Meyer understood Every question or challenge made by Michael better than Michael himself.

[dm]

I had Stephen Meyers book about 10 years or more ago called 'Signature in the Cell'

[calebaronhalt]

I love this channel because you make me slow down and focus on a small portion of a big conversation. I've probable watched all the full conversations that you've posted but forget 99% of it. Thanks for what you do. God bless.

[perserverance]

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...All things were made by Him, and without Him was not any THING made that was made. ✝️✝️✝️

[theoutspokenhumanist]

This is just another version of the fine tuning argument.
Essentially it is saying we live in a universe ruled by math and so that math must have come from God. But that does not follow. It could just as easily be that a universe could not be stable any other way and the reason we exist here is because we could not exist in any other type of universe. It is like a puddle being amazed that the hole in which it finds itself is the perefct shape to fit it's body.
The fine tuning and math arguments work equally well for the multiverse theory too. That there are many very different universes and we just happen to live in one which allows for our type of life.
And finally 😁 we must acknoledge that even if the math argument is correct, it does not lead us to the god of the bible. It could just as easily be Brahman, Zeus, Odin or the flying spagetti monster.

[joshua]

I’m not much of a mathematician, so this is new and fascinating to me. Thank you for sharing it. I’ll add my two cents as I grasp the concept!
Edit: So I got mathematical Platonism, that wasn't too hard! And if I'm understanding this correctly, this idea mentioned in the video (can't wait for this book Meyer mentioned) is so astounding is because mathematics provides descriptions/predictions for natural phenomena that are apparently unrelated to abstract mathematical concepts made _prior to the phenomena being discovered._