2019 Tesla Model 3 Long Range degradation test after 165k km/3 years

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[Reason]

I would *love* to watch a degradation test on a Model 3 SR with LFP pack!

[locutusofborg]

Would be interesting to compare this analysis result with an aviloo test of that car.

[renebergqvist]

Yes - High temperature while high voltage (especially during charge) over time kills the battery.
Keeping the cycles shallow 30-70% (20-80%) also prolongs the battery life.
High C-rates is a bit more complex. It depends how your BMS manages the battery and how the battery is designed. In some instances you will get slight Li-plating in the cell (If the impedance is too high versus charge currenr) this will wear the battery - but I would assume Tesla knows and corrects this well.
Also Tesla reduces the C-rate quite fast towards high SoC's this helps the battery cope better over time with many DC charges - but it is a balance to please the customers (likely also the reason why they reduced the S models charging rate when they got older - they probably detected higher impedance than they expected).
I have a 2019 LR (March production date) 62000 km very few DC charges (maybe 20 in total). I would estimate it at around 6% degradation . Kepts at max 75-80% SoC max normally - very seldom below 30% (and only shortly).
Just sold a 2015 24 kWh Leaf with 78000 km using the same charging philosophy - it had all battery 12 bars left.
Professionally I have seen high quality cells (not the size of those in EV's) lasting more than 4000 full cycles to ~70% remaining capacity. I wouldn't be surprised that a model 3 LR, well kept, could still have ~80% after km.

[peppi]

You could also calculate it by the total energy used divided by the battery size: Like 32 000 kWh / 80 kWh = 400 cycles

[simonhay-heddle]

Excellent video. I think your conclusions are totally in line with everything we no about Lithium batteries. It also highlights your concerns with regards to high temps/ charge speeds expressed in an earlier video.

[Muskar]

Summary: 8% degradation + hypothesis: high battery temperature and fast DC charging probably is the cause for slightly faster degradation

[Epikur]

You cannot trust the "Nominal full pack" (NFP) value which comes from the battery management system (BMS). I have the same car from 2019 which 77, 8kWh "Nominal pack when new". It got down to NFP of almost 70kWh before I switched to the well known charging strategy of newer letting the car stay for longer time with a SoC above 60%. This brought over several weeks my NFP back to 76, 2 kWh. Of course I don't expect that the battery got better: It just illustrates that different charging behaviors makes the BMS produce nicer or worse numbers which are only very roughly related to the real degradation: It can easily change degradation values by 7 to 8%.

[AndyM...]

That's a great result, considering my Outlander PHEV has over 50% degradation at around 80000km !!!

[kaasman]

Most of the initial degradation is due to aging. Then it's about charging + discharging duration with high temperatures, combined with letting the car sit with very high (is not a big problem with LFP) or very low SoC.

The old lecture by Jeff Dahn explains it well.

[MarcoNierop]

I was kinda surprized my Model Y already has 6.1% degradation (as said by ABRP) with just 10K Km on it right now. I charge mostly on AC in the street, to 80%, charged to 100% just a few times when on vacation or going for a road trip, I am not hammering it like you do. When it is at about 10-20% I put it on the charger again.

But plenty of range for my use, very pleased with the Model Y this far, also found out it is an excellent car for towing my glider trailer!

[tydlig]

I have the same car made 2019/01. About 150000km. Usable remaining 68, 0kWh. About 10% degradation then.

[dangr]

I got a MS70 (129k miles) with now 60kW usable which is
When the car was new it had 220miles on typical.

During the last winter I had road trip and my first stop was at Oxford after 100miles or 161km. I left the house with 90% and got there with 30%. I was the only one there It’s a v2 station and I used a ccs adapter, it was really cold around minus -3-4 c degrees.
My car which is limited to max 97kw only and it’s has a curve like any other older Model S so it’s 80kw speed at 50% and around 40kw at 80% and then drastically slows over 80%.
That morning magic happened. I was the only person charging there and the outside temperature was pretty cold for UK standards. What happened it was pretty extraordinary, the curve was remained flat and it kept 90kW speed till about 80%, I could not believe I just went to use the toilet and grabbed a coffee, I spent less than 20 minutes there and it was at 90% ready to go!
I think what happened is that the outside temperature helped the car to keep the battery to cool down easier and that’s why the speed of charging was kept so high during the session, so the conclusion is that temperature is the real problem, so when the battery has less heat during a charging session is the better. How to avoid degrading if you fast charging? Charge smaller amounts so never charge it too long only if it’s necessary. Perhaps avoiding preconditioning and rather spend more time at the station is also beneficial.

[Mtatc]

Yesterday there was a video that you should not trust the manufacturs obd soh, and now this 😅 I really like your test wenn you drive the cars from full to empty

[Jimwenten]

I have a 2018 model 3 long range . I rarely charge at fast chargers. I have level 2 at home. I charge to 85%, After 4 years a full charge is 311 miles . There are 8000 miles on the car.

[MihaiAdrianNegru]

One year old tesla model 3 LR, 82 kwh pack when new, nominal pack 74.7 kwh - so about 10% degradation after one year. Got the car second hand 8 months ago and when I bought an obd dongle realized the previous owner only dc charged. So most of the degradation, I assume came from bad charging habits.

And thanks for the explanation Bjorn. I was not sure whether I should subtract or add the buffer from the nominal pack. :)

[JanErik]

A lot of math and stuff to reach 8, 2%, but if you were to go only after what tesla BMS itself say, it have exactly 9% degradation, which might actually be spot on, thinking it's likely buffer was a bit larger when battery was new (to compensate for degradation over the years)?

[lastlondon]

Isn’t the number of cycles simply the total charged kWh divided by net capacity ? Much cleaner than going through typical range calculations and odometer etc

[dyhppyx]

Bjorn, if you come to Los Angeles sometime please check my degradation. 2018 model 3 performance with 200k km. Mostly supercharging up to 93% very often. Am still able to get 300 miles on full charge surprisingly.

[thegzak]

I saw a charge cycle stat there as you were scrolling at around 8:26 - it said 601 cycles

[kiwimp]

My 2019 M3P with 65k on it, mostly AC charging has 68kW usable.