Is God a Genocidal Murderer? // Ty Gibson

Let’s not pretend there aren’t hard things in the Old Testament. What’s with God telling the Israelites to conquer the Canaanites and kill everything that breathes? Some have interpreted this as genocide. Is that really what’s going on here?

[debrabankscuadro]

Thank you for this! I didn't have an answer when someone brought up this issue--now I do! Praise God for His word and the consistent image it gives us of His character. He is love!

[joeldonahoe]

SO good!! I am always amazed at how God has taken a fatherless boy like Ty and taught him over time that Jesus is right when he portrays Farther God as the best father in the

[tonyortiz]

Thank you pastor, may The Lord our God continue to give you wisdom and understanding.

[Remkay]

God was so grieved by the violence on earth he decided to put an end to it by drowning the whole 🌍 Rigggght…

[Restup]

"Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent".
[John 17:3]

"But those who wish to boast
should boast in this alone:
that they truly know me and understand that I am the LORD
who demonstrates unfailing love
and who brings justice and righteousness to the earth,
and that I delight in these things.
I, the LORD, have spoken".
[Jeremiah 9:24]

[bren]

I am a genuine seeker and have appreciated some installments in this series - thanks especially for diminishing the idea of hell as eternal suffering. This one however feels intellectually dishonest - too many times, you decide what Dawkins thinks or what he has read. Then you pick apart one aspect of one quote and seem to think this nullifies everything he wrote. Also, there are other ways for a "good" entity to remove evil from the world without torturous death by drowning for presumably hundreds of thousands of people. Imagine suffering through watching your children and loved ones struggle - I suspect it would feel like an eternity.

[biblestudytutor-bst]

Wisdom: to think and act as God would think and act, in any situation 😏

[biblestudytutor-bst]

Wilson: to think and act as God would think and act, in any situation 😏

[antonk]

Jesus never used violence, Ty, Mankind has always used the sword to try to take violence out of the system. He who lives by the sword will die by the sword and that includes God. Jesus is our perfect example. Where is Jesus in your arguments.

[sherleneklemens]

When considering the Israelites' history as given in the Bible, it is difficult not to see similarities and make comparisons with the history of the Moabites as recorded on the Mesha Stele – the Moabite Stone. 1 Commentary on the Mesha Stele is made in The Bible in History – How Writers Create a Past by Thomas L Thompson (Johnathon Cape, Random House, London 1999:12)

“In a description of a battle against Israel for the town of Nebo, the Mesha Stele presents the enemy as dedicated to total destruction as a sacred offering to the god Chemosh in a manner that is very familiar to us from the books of Joshua” (10, 11) “and 1 Samuel” (15).

A extract from the Mesha Stele (translation by K. C. Hanson, adapted from Albright 1969:320-21) reveals a similar “divine” battle plan was given to the pagan king by the god of the Moabites named Kemosh (or Chemosh – same worship as Molech or Baal), as was supposedly given to Joshua and Samuel by the One True God - Yahweh.

The translation reads:

“I am Mesha, son of Kemosh[-yatti], the king of Moab, the Dibonite. My father was king over Moab for thirty years, and I became king after my father. And I made this high-place for Kemosh in Qarcho . . . because he has delivered me from all kings, and because he has made me look down on all my enemies. Omri was the king of Israel, and he oppressed Moab for many days, for Kemosh was angry with his land. And his son reigned in his place; and he also said, "I will oppress Moab!" In my days he said so. But I looked down on him and on his house, and Israel has been defeated; it has been defeated forever! And Omri took possession of the whole land of Medeba, and he lived there in his days and half the days of his son: forty years. But Kemosh restored it in my days. And I built Baal Meon, and I built a water reservoir in it. And I built Qiryaten. And the men of Gad lived in the land of Atarot from ancient times; and the king of Israel built Atarot for himself, and I fought against the city and captured it. And I killed all the people of the city as a sacrifice for Kemosh and for Moab. And I brought back the fire-hearth of his uncle from there; and I brought it before the face of Kemosh in Qerioit, and I made the men of Sharon live there, as well as the men of Maharit. And Kemosh said to me, "Go, take Nebo from Israel." And I went in the night and fought against it from the daybreak until midday, and I took it and I killed the whole population: seven thousand male subjects and aliens, and female subjects, aliens, and servant girls. For I had put it to the ban for Ashtar Kemosh. And from there I took the vessels of Yahweh, and I presented them before the face of Kemosh. And the king of Israel had built Yahaz, and he stayed there throughout his campaign against me; and Kemosh drove him away before my face. And I cut the moat for Qarcho by using Israelite prisoners. ... Kemosh said to me, "Go down, fight against Hauranen!" I went down . . . and Kemosh restored it in my days.”



The Moabite practices and religious beliefs mirror those recorded in Joshua 10 & 11 or 1 Samuel 15. The table compares the Israelite and the Mesha Stele Moabite records:

Characteristic
Moabite Mesha Stele and the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament Bible) both maintain the following points:

God commanded them to attack certain towns and countries
Exo 32:37; 1 Sam 15:3

God commanded them to completely destroy all men, women, children and infants
Joshua 10:8; 1 Sam 15:3

Human captives were sacrificed to their gods
When describing the action of “vowing a sacrifice, ” the Moabites used the expression “put it to the ban.”
When describing the action of vowing a sacrifice, the Israelites used the expressions “consecrated to death;” “devoted to death” or “vowed to the Lord” (Lev 27:29 margin; Judges 11:31);

God is angry and must be appeased
(1 Chronicles 21:12)

God punishes nations by sending enemies to destroy them
(Lev 26:37; Jer 19:7)

God gives armies power to destroy enemies
(Exo 23:27; Num 14:43 )

God rewards his warriors by giving them the conquested land
(Exodus 3:8)

God punishes nations by taking away land
(Jer 20:4)

Made “high places” to worship their gods
(Abraham was instructed to sacrifice kill his son to Yahweh on a high place – Gen 22:2)

God was worshipped with special “fire”
(Lev 9:24;10:1)

The Creator's character is 180 degrees different from any pagan 'deity.' Please check out the book "The Assassination of God's Character" volumes 1 & 2 available for free download at www.DoubleMindedGod.com to see how the One True God is loving all time time, in every situation and that the sure result of selfishness is homocide and suicide. The Creator does not have to inflict artificial consequences to 'control' the effects of sin. Love is sufficient in every situation just as Jesus showed in the Garden of Gethsemane. Perfect Love casts out fear. Fear is the stimulant of all selfish actions.

[antonk]

I'm very disturbed about Deut 20:17. The ten commandments are supposed to be a transcript of his character. Thou shalt not kill, yet here God is asking his children to not only kill their enemies but to steal their hard earned property and justifies it as good. Jesus never spoke or demonstrated this type of evil spirit. Jesus taught to love your enemies and your love will be a witness to them. Told Peter that he who lives by the sword shall die by the sword. Thanks

[carstenmanz]

It`s not the "God of the (old!) bible" but the ancient oriental images of God by the jewish bible writers who put their own words into the mouth of "JHWH"! 😉

[antonk]

I'm also disturbed about Gen 6:9 Perhaps there is more to the story of Noah.
If Love is unconditional and so if you give freedom of choice to human being, You have NO legal right to interfere with their choices unless asked to intervene for protection which may or may not be granted.. Look to Jesus, did he try to stop his murder? He prayed to the Father that this cup may be taken from him but he never tried to use force to stop the inevitable. He told us he had the power to call on his angles to stop his murder, but would not use the force to protect himself. Ok so you may ask well what really happened back there with this belief system. OK so if God cant use force, and didn't create the flood, perhaps the destroyer was behind it. Satan is in the business of Destroying and deceiving, not creating or saving. His primary deception is to assassinate the beautiful love of Gods character from the beginning and still is. Perhaps mankind had been influenced enough by Satan with their advanced minds to build such powerful weather weaponry to destroy the Firmament and create the flood through a major earthquake or such. Obviously they may not have been aware that they were dealing with such powerful forces. Since this loving God has no legal right to interfere but he did foresee it happening, well then he would obviously warn his faithful servant that a flood would be coming and he provided a way out for all. Since Jesus is in the business as a creator and savior, that seems a logical thing to do. Which is what he did. That is what I see Jesus doing, .

[antonk]

Thanks Ty for your presentation. I wish to point out firstly that Dawkins only referred to the “Old testament” God as the most unpleasant character. He thus came to the conclusion that he didn’t want any part of such a god so he called him a fictional character. Who wouldn’t?
In his quote he did not refer to Christ though. Very strange. I agree with him about the old testament god of Good and evil. YIN YANG god. A god that supposedly gives you total freedom of choice but dare you make the wrong choice, you will come under his wrath. A condional Love which is not love at all.
The Jews of Jesus day also believed the same, a punitive god and ideology.
In Dawkins conclusion, he believed the only other option was to be an atheist. Your conclusion Ty is to justify God’s response in the old testament in a punitive mindset as I did myself most of my Christian life. Hence I became a legalistic, judgement person with those characteristics that come with it. I became like the Pharisees of old, loveless.
Then I met someone that later became my wife that introduced me to Jesus, with a totally new mindset. Non judgemental, non controlling, uncondionally loved me. A restorative mindset. He said he came not to judge but to set the captives free. All the people, those bad sinners, that most of us don’t want to hang around with because they might influence us to be like them. God was going to burn them anyway. Yet Jesus saw them as victims and emotionally injured people that needed healing. When healed, strangely, the genuine ones changed their behaviour. Jesus understands us and never once condemned anyone to stoning.
One of Jesus disciple asked Jesus, “What is the Father like?” Why did he ask Jesus that? Because they believed from the old testament that the father was like that as described in the old testament by Dawkins. A war monger that was going to set them free from those terrible Romans, Yet Jesus said, Look at me, what you see me, as I am here with you, That is what the father is like. They were shocked. That is not what they were taught. Jesus was a pacifist, The father was a pacifist, Paul became a pacifist, a non violent personage that does not use force.
This is a big topic and you can read about “The assassination of Gods Character” at