Why Women Must Learn in Quietness and Submission: Xenophon of Ephesus and 1 Timothy 2 (Gary Hoag)

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In 1 Timothy 2:11 Paul writes to Timothy, his pastoral trainee, “A woman must learn in quietness and submission.” Paul also instructs women on how to dress and to be modest. Is this just another expression of ancient, patriarchal culture that sought to marginalize women? What might this cryptic text mean, and how does it relate to the situation of the church to which he was writing? The ancient writings of people like Xenophon of Ephesus offer important cultural details that greatly affect how we ought to interpret passages like this one, and they help us determine what their significance is for contemporary Christians. In the case of women in Ephesus, it may just be that the customs associated with the cult of Artemis offers surprising insight into the actual intention of Paul the apostle.

[madamepasteure]

I cried watching this this morning ...
Almost all my life I have felt the call of God to teach and lead in the church, first in the Catholic Church where I grew up, and then in a complementarian church as a young adult. But never would I have wanted to disobey God to teach the Word of God (to men).
This teaching in particular has set me free to enter into the role I am called to ...
Thank you for giving real sound biblical answers to these controversial passages. May it set many other women free to serve as they are called by God.

[joswanell]

FINALLY I've understood what that verse in 2 Timothy means about women, being quiet in church, women pastors, and that verse about "women getting saved through childbearing."
I've been praying for nearly 40 years about the meaning of this - just last week I prayed for the answer! Whew! Yeah, God!

[peachy_talisman]

This is the best, BEST of all interpretations. This makes complete sense. Horrifying to think that a mistranslation, misinterpretation, and lack of original historical context for these verses is what has led to the barring of female pastors for centuries. Never again will women be restricted from using the gifts given to us by the Holy Spirit; women will work alongside men on equal footing just like God intended.

[thats]

This is awesome! It explains how wrong my acceptance of other people’s theology is soooo wrong! He just set a whole generation free of wrong belief and traditions. Thank you Jesus for this teaching!!

[hermanessences]

This is mindblowing. The verse seems like a slamdunk case against female priests, but once you see the pagan context, fitting like a hand in a glove, it changes everything.

[LuvBorderCollies]

Interesting insight. One thing I've come to learn about Paul is his use of local issues/customs/practices which he uses to reply to the letter's recipients. He doesn't stop to explain why he uses this example or that one because he doesn't have to, his audience knows full well what he's referring to.

Fast forward many centuries and we don't have a clue about the backstories. Then the literalist Western mind takes over and interprets the words into a whole different context. Or more frequently, readers skim over the words not realizing their significance.

Keep in mind Paul has reasons for everything he says, every example he uses, every comment he makes. He doesn't waste words. If it seems to a reader that he "wasting words" then it likely means the reader does not fully understand what Paul is conveying.

Quick examples: Paul references a boxer beating the air or an athlete training for a wreath of leaves. These are all references to the athletic games that were held in Corinth. So he skillfully uses local knowledge to help drive home a message to the local audience.

[vinceboyle]

it makes one wonder how we can truly understand anything properly without context and background.

[shortstraw]

This guy blew my mind. That makes more sense than many other interpretations I've heard.

[StarDaughterOfZionDube]

I had judged this before even listening and after listening I can say I was wrong, this guy explained perfectly and I enjoyed listen, might have to listen a few more times to get more insight. Thank you

[rebekahbeaven]

Thank you, so refreshing to hear a man who has actually researched!!! I also recommend ‘The Sourse’ New Testament with extensive notes on Greek word meanings by Dr A Nyland. Each sentence in 1 Timothy 2 has a whole page of explanations of the original Greek route words and their contexts in relation to corresponding biblical passages and other historical texts. It’s so enlightening to know what Holy Spirit is really saying.

[victor-hnbh]

13. To condemn women preachers and women church workers is a serious offense, because God has stamped His approval on them by His Spirit over and over again, and who is man to fight against the Spirit of God?

To condemn women preachers and women church workers is in a sense to claim they are doing wrong and committing sin...and all those who support them and listen to them are having a part in that sin.

For anyone to do this, he must condemn approximately 99% of all the Spirit-filled believers and the vast majority of all of Christianity.

"Of a truth, I perceive that God is no respecter of persons..." (Acts 10:34).
This article was taken from Email list subscription at NOTE FROM PAM CLARK

[samuelarthur]

This is perhaps an example of why you should not "beat" people with your interpretation.

[robertwilliams]

With all due respect Mr. Hoag, I consider myself an educated man, Master's degree, and I have not heard of let alone used half of the words you used in the first two minutes of this video. Um, in the future can you perhaps narrate this down to folks that aren't perhaps in an advanced level Literature course??? Otherwise, I appreciate your work on this subject and the insights shared here. Thanks

[shanefrederick]

Thank you for all these excellent comments.
His mind-numbingly tedious introduction that took the first 3 minutes almost had me turn it off. The comments I had read before convinced me to give it a chance. Glad I did!

[aaronbruun]

Thank you for this insightful background to this passage. It’s amazing when problem passages aren’t so problematic when you have the right context for the text.

[jasonwthompson]

If any man contradicts the Bible because of their ideology they are in error. You don’t mix today’s world views with Bible world views. You take the world view of God and follow it.

[georgechristiansen]

The background information is interesting, but besides the point.

The problem is that Paul gives his reasoning for forbidding women to teach or have authority over men: because "And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner."

Then there is the context of the command to men, which is a clearly literal and universal command to "pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or disputing.".

[Gracerever]

I appreciate his honesty in stating "maybe" multiple times. He is basically saying this is a possibility. Scripture helps to interpret scripture and in this case, the rest of the Scriptures do not seem to support this position in my view.

[LightningSonic]

That's some great insight from Ephesiaca by Xenophon of Ephesus. Thank you very much for sharing, Gary Hoag and SeedBed!

[jujulepew]

1Co 11:1to10 its clear. God head of Jesus, Jesus head to man, man head to woman. Does that clarifies who teaches to whom? who has authority over whom? Or do you need to "interpret" this statement with a word salad?