Richard Swinburne - How Free Will Probes Mind and Consciousness

Can free will reveal the nature of mental states? Free will seems so obvious, yet defies physical explanation. That’s the reason why free will can be a tool to explore the mind. Free will probes consciousness by examining what it means to pick, choose, select, decide in the closed physical system of the world. But is ‘free will’ just a trick of the brain?

Richard Swinburne is a Fellow of the British Academy. He was Nolloth Professor of the Philosophy of the Christian Religion at the University of Oxford from 1985 to 2002 and is currently Emeritus Nolloth Professor of the Philosophy of the Christian Religion.

Closer To Truth, hosted by Robert Lawrence Kuhn and directed by Peter Getzels, presents the world’s greatest thinkers exploring humanity’s deepest questions. Discover fundamental issues of existence. Engage new and diverse ways of thinking. Appreciate intense debates. Share your own opinions. Seek your own answers.

[darkknightsds]

I see Swinburne and RLK discussing a topic, I click. It's that simple.

[rc]

the choices, that are made by utilizing agency, are always based on prior events and will be turned into a cause for diferent future events that can be in turn selected based on a specific abstraction... these choices are made freely in the sense that the decision maker has the ability to select one of many alternatives that are unfolded be the chain of events...

[petermartin]

Some causality flows through that bit of the universe that we consider to be ourselves. Consequently we attribute some outcomes to what we did. That's useful because we can analyse the outcome
afterwards and change future responses if necessary. That's all there is to free will.

[adamsawyer]

This argument is part of a broader and simpler argument. If we don't believe we have conscious free will then we simply cannot trust ANY of our science (or anything else involving reasoning).

This means we can't trust the philosophy and empirical study that persuades us the universe is deterministic.

This defeats our reasons for believing we don't have conscious free will which then frees us to redo our philosophy and science...

...and so we end up in this paradoxical loop which, I believe, shows there's a very major issue with our reasoning.

It's very obvious what that issue is too: we assume a priori that the universe must be deterministic and or reductionistic such that our consciousness must be a weakly emergent and epiphenomenal.

All this way of thinking actually says is:

"If we assume the universe is fundamentally deterministic and strong emergence is impossible then consciousness isn't causally effective."

Like duh obviously. But it would be a very odd kind of universe if it produced billions of systems with the very strong epiphenomenal belief that they had conscious free-will - something that can never exist in such a universe. Yet the universe repeatedly dreams that it's the case, all as a result of completely deterministic chains of causality.

Very obviously - this is madness 😂

[guyswithguitarsgwg]

Very interesting arguments, even if they are not scientifically conclusive. They at least raise questions that need to be answered before making a determination.

I see Richard’s argument structure as similar to Descartes use of counter example to say that it is illogical to think and believe there’s no reality assignable to the thinker. To paraphrase, it’s illogical to discount intention with the intent to show it’s not part of the equation.

[brionhausgeld]

Closed system? If the universe is infinite, how could we know that?

[andrewmasterman]

To use the coin analogy, at what point would you accept the outcome of the flip is certain. And try to consider the totality of factors that impart causality on the event.

[caricue]

It's easy enough to demonstrate that we don't live in a deterministic universe, but the idea of determinism is so sticky that most people can't even conceive that it isn't reality. All they can say is that it has to be either deterministic or indeterministic, even when presented with the alternative.

[synapse]

The question I am waiting someone to ask during the many Youtube videos about this subject (which include reknowned philosophers, physicists, neuroscientists, and all the rest): if you woke up tomorrow, and you were utterly convinced that every choice you made and everything you did was predetermined, what would you do differently? Think that through for the day, the next day, and in the weeks ahead. It might have some psychological impact in the moments when you muse on the subject, but once you get back into life, see if there would really be a difference. It isn't possible to experience life from a viewpoint that you have no free choices, because you'll see that you'll have to go on making choices, as if they are undetermined choices, whether you want to or not. The first question is: what is the practical point of this conversation? Is there one? Or is it just interesting?

[JungleJargon]

I seriously doubt that circumstances or environment determine our actions considering that when I was given the opportunity to take medication for my delusions and hallucinations I chose instead to try to recover without medication. The interesting thing was that my condition did not improve until I deliberately chose to not believe the delusions I was believing in. Suddenly the hallucinations and delusions lost their power. However, it took a long time to change all of my habits of thought. I had to consciously chose to ignore all of the things that I believed that I suspected were wrong. I had to literally rewire my entire thinking process and only then was I no longer tormented by by own thoughts 24/7. Truth is much more impressive than fiction.

[brucebakken]

All of these conundrums are a result of the inadequacy of language to describe what we perceive.
We are in a trap of our own self-reflection. It's like navel gazing, except into a black hole. We will never know the answer, but the "illusion" (to call it that) of "free will" actually works.
It can be demonstrated how easily our senses can be manipulated, or rather sort and process input into something that makes sense, so why wouldn't consciousness work the same way? This is how it *appears* to work, but we will never be able to use language to actually define it.

[PhillipYewTree]

Robert Sapolsky asserts that humans have no free will. Behind every action is a biological explanation. How far biological explanations influence moral or political Will requires a lot of thought. The flaw in adopting a science based explanation, as in the probability of heads n tails (which has a quantitative, or analytical approach) is that it ignores meaning (which is a qualitative approach). Whist music, for example, has rules related to wavelength of sound (quantitative) the genius of composers is a qualitative, unique, and defined by meaning not by measurement.

[aaronrobertcattell]

the man who said move your hand any time in 20 minutes had the intention so the man who moved he's hand had no intention?

[aaronrobertcattell]

can not have freewill when everyone affects everyone else ?

[youtubehatesfreespeech]

Intentions are brain events themselves. When the brain event is more abstract and larger and consequently... slower, then it's conscious as opposed to a scare jump situation when you have a brain event so quick it fails to create an intention. It all depends whether your consciousness can keep up with your brains mechanical structure.

Free will not only doesn't exist, but it can't possibly exist. Every action to be free must be preceded by a decision but this decision is a form of action itself. So each decision must be decided by a decision before that. It's basically the infinite regression fallacy.

[pv]

what if the brain is the physical interface between our minds and bodies?

[alexiaintelligence]

free will is Gods key that is given to you to choosed and make a decision according to your what your dealings that will controls your moves and actions in some certain things like examples your not allowed to travel outside why?because you let them to control your free will instead you choose them for you

[peweegangloku]

Succinct argument presented by the guest.

[whatzause]

If you’re uncertain about the genuine existence of free will (“trick of the brain”) why would this billing include the idea of explore
“new ways of thinking” (WHAT?!)

[ILoveLuhaidan]

When was this? Because he doesn’t look as old