Cultish: Answering Claims Of Hebrew Roots, Part 1

Welcome to this exciting series where Jeremiah Roberts and Andrew Soncrant dive deep into the claims of the Hebrew Roots movement.
The two are joined by husband and wife, Andrew and Nikki Schumacher who have in-depth knowledge of the diverse Hebrew Roots theology.

What do Hebrew Roots followers believe?
How can we have an answer for the many claims of the Hebrew Roots movement?
Join us for this exciting series to find out!

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[aProdigalSonReturned]

While I do not categorize myself as Hebrew Roots, I am sure many would lump me in with them. I do my best to keep all of God's commands that apply to me. You can call them the laws of Moses if you like, but the reality is that they were God's commands given through Moses because the people were afraid. Moses didn't come up with any of the commands on his own. I wear tzitzit, and eat according to the commands. Kosher is not a Biblical diet, my friends. Kosher has added laws, and stuff like not eating meat and cheese together. I believe that we are saved by Yeshua's/Jesus' blood alone, but also recognize that He said we would keep His commands if we love Him. I believe He is God, and therefore gave all of the commands. I keep the feasts, and Sabbath. I do not subscribe to the number of laws being 613. There are two that branch out into ten that branch out into a multitude. It was said in the OT, do not remove your neighbor's land marker. Does it mean that I can dump trash on his property because it doesn't specifically mention that? Would that be loving your neighbor as yourself? I do not believe that any of us can be perfect in keeping the law, but in keeping the law we can be a perfect work. Grace is given for mistakes, but none will be afforded for rebellion. I do not mean to say that a rebellious person won't be given grace, but that a person living in rebellion isn't seeking repentance. I believe that we are supposed to be Israel, and not professing gentiles. Words mean things, and countless times the body is called things that refer to Israel alone. Kings and Priests. A Holy Nation. An Olive Tree. Sheep. His people. We cannot take these titles in the NT to mean something totally different than they did in the OT. Ephesians 2 tells us straight up that we WERE gentiles when we were heathens, but now we are part of Israel. Romans 11 says we are grafted into the olive tree. The phrase cut off from among your people is equivalent to branches broken off. My presupposition is that the Word of God is Truth, no matter what men teach. I didn't learn any of this through YouTube or teachers, but through the reading of the Word. Which topic do we want to explore first?

[hangtoughhomestead]

Sad thing is, all this could be said of mainstream Christian Churches, as well. This is so sad that defensive individuals are pointing the finger at something our Father is doing...which is 'calling out' people from Laodicea. Yes, there are immature believers, there are hypocritical believers, there are people that are a bad witness, even people teaching untruths. But, sin and human nature being what it is, this is to be expected. If the Father is 'calling out' a people unto Himself, then it stands to reason that the enemy would be planting 'tares' among the wheat. We have seen this ourselves, and must determine what to do....Is it a problem with the leadership and false teaching...where we would exit the assembly, or is the problem with immature believers or other that our presence might help to lead to the Truth of Scripture and living out our faith in sincerity and truth.

We DID NOT even know there was a thing called Hebrew Roots when our Father began pointing out the Truth of His Word. It started with WHO do we worship. Do we worship the God of creation and 'remember' Him and His work on The 7th Day...not a day of our choosing? Then, how do we OBEY EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS FROM THE MOUTH OF GOD (Matthew 4:4) without actual 'obeying' His stated will as He already told us? How about Acts 15, when we are told that new converts were to begin their journey with basic turning away from pagan worship...and the reason given that that was all at that time....was that they were going to 'HEAR MOSES READ EACH SABBATH.' This means that new converts were worshipping each Sabbath...and the day was not Sunday or the first day, it was the Sabbath as understood in Scripture. Then, we have the SAINTS SINGING THE SONG OF MOSES and the SONG OF THE LAMB. This is indicative of the law AND our Messiah.

Our Messiah had much to say about hypocrisy. He also told a man who asked how he might be saved....to keep the commandments. He also said that those that would be rejected as those He doesn't know are those that are 'lawless.'

This is dangerous ground that the Church is standing on. Jesus said that He spoke the Father's Words, not His own.

We are told in the Book of Daniel that the enemy of God seeks to 'change' His law. The prophetic picture given in the Book of Daniel is that we should OBEY OUR FATHER AND MESSIAH even when the whole world says we shouldn't or that there will be grave consequences.

I have much more to say. Unfortunately, even Scripture speaks of those who will not hear until chastisement comes and ears are opened.

As for me and my house, we will serve YHWH. Say all that you will. All this has been prophesied about in our Father's Word.
By the way, we belong to no Hebrew Roots group. But, we do believe that we are 'Hebrews' and sojourners in this present land and 'crossing over' to our Father's kingdom and our Messiah's kingdom.

Mankind began with eating food prohibited. They must have 'rationalized' about why it was o.k. to do so. But, Daddy said not to.
Today, mankind is still desiring prohibited food, prohibited conduct, and also seeking to be THEIR OWN GOD by 'assuming' they can make all the rules. Jesus was QUOTING SCRIPTURE when He said that all the Torah/law HUNG ON loving God and loving our neighbor. That was a DIRECT QUOTE from the written law of God in Leviticus 19 and Deuteronomy 6.

The New Covenant is a soft heart that obeys because our body truly is the Body of Christ. Jeremiah 31.

[jenniferbtoo]

This is such a needed conversation. Thank you. I was sucked into this in part and it took me a long time to come out. I still find myself having to remind myself of the truth of God’s word vs the views of this movement. When I look back, it scares me how I was traveling down this road. I’m thankful to have escaped out of this. To God be the glory alone. Thank you for Cultish.

[Equalshares]

Shalom brothers and sisters.

First off this panel is super biased, and taking the worst parts of immature Torah messianics and exploiting it like it's all of us. A debate with equal parts would make this whole discussion line up with The truth and love of the Word. Bring on Adam Fink and Sean Griffin, or even David Wilbur

Secondly. We are just Hebrews grafted into the family by salvation in Yeshua . Former gentiles who have crossed over. Titles of Hebrew roots are not even taken by the majority of this return to the ancient way.

I agree many are way too extreme with the pagan ties stuff, but the truth is we just Rather celebrate Yeshua (birth, life, death, Ressurection and ascension in the midst of All the biblical feasts and they are just way more fun and more celebration . it's awesome to keep the feasts .

The name stuff is part of the process. I was even way to harsh about it at first as are many, but then maturity comes as the Spirit brings discipline and wisdom. Jesus is ok and so is Yeshua or is no harm in this.

It's all about The Messiah and his Way. Not works for salvation, no one in the movement believes works are for salvation. Those are super false claims .

There is no false religion or teaching here....We are brothers and sisters in Messiah....hebrews because of Him

Shalom and much love

[shlomicohen]

I am a Jewish believer in Jesus (or Yehoshua as I would call Him) and this charge has been put to me previously by the Christian people they've told me I am a member of this "Hebrew Roots movement" and I genuinely have no idea what it is but what I do know is the Holy One, blessed be He, in Megillah Devarim warns me against those who try and teach me to forsake His Torah. HaShem defines a false Prophet as one who abrogates His Torah. How would you guys balance this in light of your current position?

There is nothing and I mean literally nothing in the Brit'Chadasha that teaches followers of Messiah to abrogate Torah. I believe the Christian people need to read "Jesus" through Jewish eyes rather than a tradition that's been handed on..

[charitybrook]

The critiques you used against the lady who "put a burden on herself" by trying to keep Passover could very easily be turned around on all of the christian mother's who kill themselves getting everything perfect for Easter and Christmas.

Yes our eyes should be on Christ but we are human and sometimes things go wrong and we get frustrated. If you were getting ready for Easter and everything went wrong you would probably be feeling the same way. Are people putting unnecessary yolks on them with Easter?

[HeartForHisGlory]

Become as an infant in understanding, as if knowing or being taught nothing, forgetting all bias, prejudice and doctrines of men, then read from Genesis to Revelation with actual exegesis. Blessings! 💙

[alleadonai]

Man, I'm kind of torn on this one.

I have recently come out of the Torah observant movement and I can agree with a lot of what this couple says here, but the wife definitely has the type of attitude that would discourage me from sending this to my friends in Torah that I am trying to coax out of the movement by careful reading of the Word.

If there are people reading this who are Torah observant and want to hear the objections to their practice in order to test it, I would suggest a channel called "Defending the Biblical Roots of Christianity" because the gentleman who runs it, R.L. Solberg doesn't muddy the waters by accusing people who are trying to keep the Mosaic covenant as ignorant or heretical. God bless.

[cs]

The sabbath is not ceremonial law. It is moral law given at creation and written in tablets of stone, therefore perpetual also.

[TheBeginningOfWisdom]

Thanks for having me on for this important conversation. It's always impossible to get to every issue on everyone's mind, but I am very open to questions, and have addressed these things in much more detail on my channel. Please reach out if you have encountered an argument you think unassailable. I'd love to hear it and test it.

[rickbailey]

You should probably actually have a Messianic on. It’s exhausting seeing people who are fully convinced in their minds against “Hebrew Roots” telling non “Hebrew Roots” people who “Hebrew Roots” people are and what they believe. I’ve noticed people like this ignore every single fair, honest, and loving Messianic they’ve met and just allude to these obscure bad eggs which, interestingly enough, nobody ever meets. It’s a bogeyman tactic.

Respectfully, these conversations are dishonest when they’re never properly “heard out.” The fact that almost every “typical Christian” immediately rejects “Hebrew Roots” without actually knowing anything they believe is concerning and shows bias.

If we’re going to have this conversation, let’s do it honestly and fairly.

Rick

[kylecrowley]

I love this show. But this series is a wash. I don't find any in the Hebrew roots movement, cultish. The people that are your guests don't represent the movement at all.

[charitybrook]

Hebrew roots is really just an umbrella term for everyone making an exodus from the unscriptural western church.

1. Give me a scriptural basis for ignoring the Sabbath.

2. Give me a scriptural basis for why Christians don't celebrate God's feasts even though the apostles did...

3. Give me a scriptural basis for why we instead have bunnies with eggs and Santa? But people who celebrate God's feasts are seen as "legalistic"?

4. Give me a reason why we are looking so much like the laodecian church that God will spit us out of His mouth??

We are spiritually poor blind and naked and we think we are rich and have need of nothing. God's laws are good and given as protection. Jesus said not one jot or tiddle would pass away until heaven and earth do, that hasn't happened yet!!

And so called pastors aren't helping their sheep sort through all of these really serious questions! Which is why you have people calling themselves Hebrew roots now and even going to rabbis and the Talmud!! What a tragedy.

Myself I just call a Christian because I follow my Lord to the best of my ability. I fail all the time but I just want to follow Him and not make Him sad.

[gregengel]

I grew up Catholic and came out of Catholicism a while after i started studying the Bible trying to prove that it supported Catholic doctrine and practice. After going to a Baptist Church for a few years my wife and i eventually came to the conclusion that we should as Christians keep the Sabbath. We realized that in gathering for worship on Sunday in stead of keeping the Sabbath as God commands we were doing the same thing as the Pharisees, who Christ chastised for making God's commandments of none affect in order to keep traditions of men(because, regardless of Christ rising on the first day of the week, we're not actually instructed anywhere in Scripture to gather that day and ignore the Sabbath command). Shortly after that, though we still understood Peters vision in Acts 10 as doing away with old testament dietary laws, we decided to start eating biblically clean under the mindset that God, Who created us and all the animals, probably knows what diet is healthiest for humans and was probably prescribing a fairly healthy diet for His people so it might be a good idea to follow it. Eventually we did somehow come across some Hebrew roots stuff, i think on YouTube or something initially, and ended up joining some Facebook groups and going down that rabbit hole of new age Pharisees. Now, i don't support the notion of trying to keep the whole law to establish your own righteousness, which is why we eventually distanced ourselves from that movement. However, i do believe Paul is widely misunderstood among Christendom and wrongfully used to support lawlessness (just like Peter warned us not to do in 2 Peter 3:16-17), which was never Paul's intention. My wife, my children and i still strive and do our best to understand and keep the Sabbath and dietary laws and and any other laws we understand to be applicable to us, not in order to establish our own righteousness, but because of the righteousness of Christ that we hope will be imputed on us. Christ told us "if you love me, keep my commandments". John also told us to walk even as He(Christ) walked, who kept the law perfectly. Like i said, we've distanced ourselves from the Hebrew roots movement because we saw in it a lot of self righteousness and unloving hypocrites. But i think it's funny how people accuse those who come to these conclusions of inserting their preconceived notions into the text when that's exactly what they're doing. Again, i started studying the Bible with a very strong assertion that the Catholic Church is THE ONE TRUE CHURCH OF CHRIST and determined to prove that nothing in the Bible contradicts that. I obviously can't speak for anyone else, but i came to these conclusions despite my preconceived notions because i decided that, no matter how much i wanted to be right, i was going to be honest and follow whatever truth i discovered. I encourage anyone who reads this to look into corner fringe ministries and also a man named David Wilber who I've found to be very intellectually honest with the text. Shalom brothers and sisters.

[NikkiSchumacherOfficial]

Thanks for having us on. It was a pleasure.

[ArchDLuxe]

Your discussion of the Passover seemed confused to say the least. We can all agree that prior to the incarnation Israelites were commanded by God to keep that feast, right? Was their observance in that period "burdensome" or "sad"? Christ identified the "last supper" as Passover (Luke 22:15). Doesn't your criticism here apply to any Christian who sees the Eucharist/Communion/Lord's Supper as a required participation in the observance that night? My point is that any good work can seem burdensome, but this is no proof that the work is not inherently good. It may simply be that we are approaching it wrong.

[positiveendtimes]

Many of the Hebrew roots groups are small family home churches with varying beliefs/opinions. But the large ones like 12 tribes are definitely a cult

[Ancientpathsfellowship]

Yes it’s so cultish to want to walk like our Messiah walked. 1 John 2:6. Paul kept the Torah. Acts 21. He even went to perform sacrifices. Jesus kept the Torah perfectly. He came do His fathers business. He taught His Fathers doctrine. John 7:16. Read Psalms 119 and tell me we shouldn’t want to obey the Torah. Look at the things David said about it. Brothers and sisters please go to the scriptures and look at things yourself. Don’t believe me. Don’t believe men. Read it yourself. The Messiah said He came not to abolish it until heaven and earth pass away not one jot or tittle would pass. Heaven and earth have not passed away. Jesus kept it. Paul kept it. The apostles kept it. We should be keeping it. Not because it saves us. But because it’s what the scriptures command from us. It’s how we please our Father. It’s His holy and righteous law. To subject ourselves to it is to walk in the spirit. Romans 8. Love you all and even if you disagree I still consider you a brother and sister in Christ if you’ve given your life to Him. I just wish people would see the truth of the word.

[benjensen]

Where is the defense for the other side of the case?? You are sharing your side where is the defense for the other side do you think it so low that they don't deserve a fair trial? I know someone else that didn't get a fair trial and he turned into a corner stone.

Make the debate fair....