The Collapse of the Irish Church?

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[dinkohrvat]

My elderly Irish friend refused to go to mass . When I asked him why I never saw him at mass he replied he was slapped violently across the face by a priest when a child. When I asked why he was slapped he said he failed to bow in front of the priest in the street when their paths crossed !!! Some of these old priests, nuns and brothers were real monsters !!!.
I recall The communist dictator President Tito of Yugoslavia was also slapped across the face as an altar boy and never returned to the church .One slap changed history and he became communist, then a dictator who killed thousands and persecuted the church in Croatia and Slovenia then part of Yugoslavia . !

[dalspartan]

Maybe I’m wrong, I am wrong too often, but in my experience growing up Catholic, it was assumed we had faith. We weren’t fed for knowledge, not that the Eucharist isn’t spiritual food, but catechism and theology classes were useless as we never cracked a Bible or a catechism. We studied “relevance” and psychology.
I didn’t hear of Aquinas or Augustine until I was much older. When a non-Catholic explained to me about Jesus’ death and resurrection, well, I knew the story but didn’t think it was personal. Then he quoted “Behold I stand at the door and knock…” and I realized what I’d been missing. I didn’t have that personal faith or relationship with Jesus.
He didn’t say I couldn’t be Catholic or a single negative about the Church, just gave me a Bible to read and grow.
I was astounded that many stories I had heard and the readings at Mass were really there and alive! My heart is broken for my grandparents native Ireland. I pray the Lord opens doors!

[factsandlogic]

As an Ulster Protestant I must admit that it is not the catholic church dying in Ireland but rather The Church dying in Ireland as even those who know christ do not desire him as the should, and most men refuse to lay all on the altar for God as their fathers did in times past. However our fathers prayers still ring out: God Save Ireland is the cry, and by God's good grace the irishmen may one day again be counted worthy to do all in his will and trust his grace

[cycleforbrotherkevin]

Frank Duff said in the 1970s when our churches were full that the faith was not deep...we went to Mass out of habit, obligation....when the storm came, we had no roots to withstand

[MrLetmein]

I’m also coming back to the faith of my childhood.
I’m 59 and falling in love with the catholic faith 🙏🏻💚

[kierondurney]

I began watching this with cynicism, I have to be honest. I thought 'Oh here we go, another American telling us how great they are and how bad we are'. But I was startled out of my negativity by the simple, powerful, sight of you walking in your habit along the streets of my childhood. What was once a common sight in Ireland is almost never seen now. I was also impressed by the calm and insightful way you spoke about what has been happening to us here.
The Clericalism was appalling and it wasn't just the abuse of the position either. Clericalism effectively removed you from the community you were supposed to serve. In the 1980's I spent a few years as a Monk involved in education. As soon as I received my habit, everyone's attitude to me changed, including that of my parents. In so many ways real encounters stopped - you were treated with deference all the time. That's not real or healthy. But the reality of Clericalism gave many people the opportunity to walk away from the church - you referenced this in your - 'That was them, we're not like them, so it's not my fault or responsibility' ( I am paraphrasing there). But the truth was, that, in the case of the mother and baby homes, everyone knew they were there and now many people act like it was a big secret, which they knew nothing about. I am one of those who stayed, by choice and I am sure, through the guidance, protection and support of The Holy Spirit.
Since I retired two years ago, my parish priest has asked me on a number of occasions to get more involved in the life of the parish. Within me, I find the biggest resistance to this are the thoughts and feelings which are the legacy of Clericalism. Becoming more active in my parish has brought me into more connected contact with the priests of my Diocese and what I encountered has amazed me. Without realising it, I had expected to meet men who were beaten, exhausted and dispirited. Instead the people I meet are filled with joy, energy, commitment and a deep seated desire to be a sign of the Love and Mercy of God in the world.
There are two reactions within the Irish church to what has happened. On the one hand there are those who say that the only way forward is to go back to the old ways before Vatican II. On the other hand there are those who look to the leadership of Pope Francis who constantly talks about stuff on a human level and looks to the Gospels as a roadmap back to being authentic. Your reference to our troubled history and connecting it to the issue of Secularism intrigued me - being Catholic was seen as a way to be different to the British who weren't and once the Peace process took root in the 1990's, many people no longer had that reason to be in the Catholic church. I had never thought of that before and of course it takes an 'Outsider' (if you will forgive the use of the term please) to spot something that we might not see at all.
Another issue is the standard of Catechesis we received in the schools. Many people say that this was the fault of Vatican II, but I don't agree. We were 'guided' in the Faith by both men and Women who didn't have faith themselves, but who didn't know that. They were Catholic because the world around them was, not because they had a personal commitment to a relationship with God. You can't pass on something which you don't possess. In my few years as monk, I met men and women who had spent a lifetime in the Consecrated Life because their parents sent them there, not because they had a vocation, but because there were too many children at home and sending some off to 'the Brothers or the Nuns' was the done thing. In most cases these men and women were deeply unhappy people.
So, where is the Church in Ireland now? Well it is smaller, poorer and leaner than ever before, but despite appearances we are being led by priests who have a deep personal connection and understanding of the values of The Kingdom of God. We are not lost, even if we are still not fully sure of the way forward yet. Thank you for this post Father and for the time, energy and prayer you clearly brought to bear in compiling it.

[JohnMac-pfjs]

29, Irish. Catholic family, Catholic school.

The era in which I grew up Catholicism is completely disgraced and mocked. I recently had a discussion with uncle who is a priest and my father, and realise how divorced from reality they are about how things actually are. I think older people move through their own circles and don’t get much exposure to how younger people feel, or they get glimpses of it but don’t feel threatened by it because they don’t have to exist around it. And I personally regard this as a failing, because it’s the state of affairs that has been left behind by their era, firstly, and as we get all get older, that’s the world that you will grow old inside of as younger people take the reigns.

For example, I see a lot of outrage now about the Olympic mocking the last supper. That’s literally nothing new, that’s all I’ve ever known. This has grown and grown to such a point that it has spilled over into maybe the largest affront to Christianity in modern times.

It’s a serious failing. It would be a good thing for people to feel threatened by this, and not bury their head in the sand. You should feel threatened by it, because it’s a reality, and this might motivate action. Head burying is what’s got it to the point it is.

And by action I don’t mean condemnation and whinging.
We have to pick up a sword and engage on the front of ***influence in the ongoing culture war. That is what will actually have an impact. What’s needed also is progressive approaches. Wisen up. Learn about the modern world, and what gains peoples respect. And by that I do not mean compromising our values and trying to fit in; that will make us lose respect and be contemptible and pathetic. We need competent, capable, intelligent people who lead by example, which involves adapting to our current times. While I’m sure God appreciates our efforts and personal faith, I’m sure results and success would be a better offering, which involves adaptation and actually engaging with the current landscape. I think it’s moral duty to learn how to earn peoples respect back in modern times, and that’s going to need a strong dose of the Christian value of humility. Humility to acknowledge how we have been the times in which the church has decayed. Whose fault is that but ours? We have failed so greatly and we need to humble ourselves to learn how we can win the respect of the world back and have as much influence as possible.

Or die off with righteous pride.

[marymarcks]

I am an Irish Catholic ; living in the USA for many years and have gone through cycles of being less faithful and questioned my faith but I am definitely doing better today. I do blame my my lack of faith as a young person on my interaction with ‘religious’ in education in Ireland when I was there. I have many ‘less than fond’ memories’. Thank God for Fr Mike Schmidt of Ascension for his explanations and for you also❤️

[philiphumphrey]

I suspect the Irish Church got far too close to the Irish state, that never ends well.

[olivierdomingue]

The story of the catholic church in Quebec is almost the same, with the church collapsing almost overnight, please visit us someday.

[CLMNX]

I'm from Nigeria, and I completely agree with the sincere submissions here. There's a lot of lessons to take home if we must continue to be signs of the Kingdom of God in our local communities. The toxicity of power and clericalism may degenerate to a soulless Church identified with buildings and structures. This was not the kind intended by the Eternal groom.
Pray also for the Church in Nigeria ❤❤❤

[suzannelangdon]

The faith in my beautiful country was fake and forced. The nuns, sisters and priests were forced into the Church by their families. It was a way to get rid of the strange one in the family while still looking good to the community. These people who were forced had no vocation and so they were not able to foster a love for God in their parishes. The churches were full but no one in the building had any faith, including the priest. The people only attended because it was the norm that was expected. It was a breeding ground for evil to flourish and flourish it did. That kind of faith needed to die off and that's what we're seeing today.

You'd be foolish though if you thought that the faith here is dead. God Will Never Abandon us, ever. The faith is coming back, slowly yes but very surely. I am seeing more young people who have a genuine faith in Jesus. There are definitely less people in the church on a Sunday for Holy Mass but I can guarantee you that the vast majority that are there are warriors for Christ 🥰

Please pray for us Irish Catholics 🙏 God Bless you all 🙏

[adventureinallthings]

As usual great video, I'm an Irish Catholic from Dublin and I'd love to discuss this topic with you at any point. I've lived right through this development and I believe I have a grasp of the topic you might find interesting. Also as an aside, sorry I missed you visiting my hometown, I would have loved to show you around to try and repay what you have given me through your channel these last few years 🙂🙏

[ellatuohy]

As a very catholic Irish teenager in Ireland I’d also like to say there became a very relaxed idea towards teaching Christianity from parents because you learn it school but unfortunately in our catholic ethos schools were taught close to nothing about Christianity but rather everything Islam because it gets more points in our state exams but asking my classmates and peers they also agree with me that they never even considered being religious because we’re not being taught it and not being taught the amazing things the church did for us and saved us from we’re only told about the tradgys committed by people who don’t represent God, the rise of secularism has also lead to lack of passion or care to preserving our own culture I can’t tell you how many times people have been confused when I mention our culture and Catholicism nurtured it and saved thousands of lives from just that alone

[ezkbtyi]

Fr Casey as an Irish person I’ll tell you what happened people did not know their faith. The catechism was poorly taught after the 1960s as an Irish man in early school we learnt he Hail Mary the our father the priest would come in do confession and the sacraments once or twice a year. The problem is the parents were not taught the faith, thus the children were not taught the faith. Questions go misunderstood because basic theology is swept out the window. Then you had the abuses in the church including the mother and baby homes, then also the bad priests in the church. Our lady of Good success said “bad priests would bring on hatred of the church” that is what happened in Ireland. My aunt god rest her soul, had a baby out of wedlock she was scared to tell my grandparents her parents about the pregnancy this was early 70s, so she had to forcibly give her son up for adoption she didn’t want to but the nuns pressured her, so she gave him up for adoption anyways this ended up in her becoming an alcoholic, now she did get married later on but the marriage broke up, through no fault of her husband he is a walking saint, she had three more kids 1 with her husband and 2 with another man later, anyways my grandparents neve knew about the pregnancy my grandfather died never knowing, however my grandmother did find out before she passed about him. Eventually my aunt met her son just before Covid lockdown in march 2020, unfortunately my aunt died at the age of 69 that September following a cardiac arrest. Her liver was completely destroyed, now I say if my aunt had been allowed to keep her baby maybe this wouldn’t have happened. I know countless women another neighbour of mine was told by the priests and nuns in one of these mother and baby homes that God didn’t want them, that they were no good. Now where in Jesus would he say that, okay I’ll admit what they done may have been wrong, okay but our lord Forgives, and forgets. I think the problem was the church in those times were more obsessed with looking good than doing good. Like consider this early times in the church in Ireland the priest would read out how much each person had given, to the church. Now if we reflect upon the gospel Jesus said about the old woman who put one coin in the bucket, she was giving her all to god whereas the Pharisees where praising what they had done, Jesus said “let your right hand not know what your left is doing” give to God in secret, not for glory of yourself. That was the problem with the church in Ireland they forgot about the man who founded it. They forgot about the Holy Spirit, that is why the church is in the state it’s in. It’s not because the Irish people hate God far from that a lot of the Irish people have a deep faith in God, a strong love for Jesus and the gospel. Like their is good priests in the church who served god faithfully I couldn’t name them all now but they do love God, you can see it in their lives. They live out the gospel sometimes they get a lot of hate, but they are reasilient in their faith. Also I would advise you to look up venerable Matt talbot his story is wonderful.

[adrianthomas]

It’s more complex - the essential problem with the “Church” is that the organisation becomes too important - we have Christian leaders and do not realise that there are no Christian leaders but only Christian followers. The Church makes everything so complex and does not place Jesus central. This is why Mary is so inspirational- Mary always points to her Son - do what He says. The Church turns the Faith into a philosophy. There is too much infighting between Christians and the world has lost interest.

[verneser]

Thanks Fr Casey from Singapore. This video gives me hope, for my husband to return to the church..a man of Irish descent, living in Australia, and was hurt by the Church.

Praying in gratitude for Ireland, and you and the team for this video and all your productions. ❤

[alexxavier]

I lived in Dublin and as a Catholic I can say that the Irish people embraced the liberal ideas, scientificism and atheism. Many Irish people speak about Jesus but they have stopped going to the church for more than 30 years and they don't know the history of their country and the history of the Catholic Church. Ireland without catholicism can be anything, but not Ireland.

[RealBelisariusCawl]

I just wanted to drop in to say that today I attended my first Catholic mass.

I was quite overwhelmed, and very much lost as to when to say things, or how/when to make the sign of the cross, or how/when to genuflect or bow…

However!

The family sitting next to me was incredibly kind and helped me through the process so I would know what to do.

It was the most incredible Church service I’ve ever been to. The entire time I was there I had the same sort of feeling in my chest that I used to get as a kid on Christmas morning just before the presents got opened — genuine childlike joy.

I’m actually finding myself _genuinely impatient_ for next Sunday.

Friar Casey, you were a BIG part of my motivation. THANK YOU. In Jesus’ name, may your work continue to bring more like me into the fold.

[margaretduffy]

I spent much of my life in the 1970s in rural Ireland and I think that much of the loss since then was self-imposed. One thing that you have missed in your comments on the reaction to Vatican II in Ireland is the plundering of churches by so called 'renovation'. Following Vatican II the churches associated with both my parents (one of them a cathedral) were ruthlessly striped of their altars, their statues, even their stained glass windows in favor of very abstract designs or totally empty space. The visual world that people inhabit has a greater impact on their thinking and belief than is often recognized and to destroy what had been the building up of images for over a thousand years was a terrible move. This iconoclasm, as bad if not worse than anything that occurred in the Reformation, appears to have been pushed from the top of the hierarchy down. It left many people, old as well as young, with an uneasy feeling that the secure ground of what had been the faith that had sustained Ireland through several centuries of oppression had been discarded. Already, as early as 1972, many lay people were questioning whether what they had believed in was really true and people were already drifting away. While still maintaining a rather tangential facade of faith, underneath was a lot of confusion, disappointment and anger. This left the faith of the country highly vulnerable to the assault of so-called "modern" thought. As the country caught up economically with the rest of Europe and with North America it was easy prey for "advanced" ideas and the dead weight of its own dirty secrets.