How do you know yours is safe?

We tested belay loops because there is gear fear about how safe they are after Todd Skinner's broke in 2006 during a rappel, costing him his life. I learned so much making this video. I hope anyone who wondered about their belay loop finds this useful.

[TyrellCrosby]

I’m a retired NFL OL. I have zero intention of ever climbing but your passion for super safe enough and showing how gear works makes me love the channel. Been watching 3 or so years now

[steevkeyes]

I do very little climbing, but am a structural engineer. I notice the multiple looped belay loops are laid up in a spiral configuration. The outer circle will experience more elongation than the inner circle. We can see this in your break tests, where the stitching first rips on the outer section. There is a unzippering mechanism happening to the stitching. This leads to a progressive increase in the tearing stress on the remaining stitching. In contrast, the 'infinite' belay loop has the stress equally shared through the entire circumference and the cross section. I believe that is why the 'infinite' belay loop are yielding double the breaking force compared to the 'spiral' belay loop.

[PujicMafia]

I was on a climbing date with a Skinner (family member of Todd's) a number of years after Todd died. The harness I was wearing was so old and tattered I had tied my own belay loop to supplement the existing one. As I was tying in the gal just started shouting my name and looing down at the harness. It actually took me a moment to figure out what she was trying to communicate. All of a sudden being proud dirtbag didn't feel so proud, I went and got a new harness.

[L-]

Love your channel. My background is soft shackles and mast climbing (sailboat). As you might know, I invented or co-invented the soft shackles you use. A lot of this work was chronicled on a Sailing Anarchy forum where a person with screen name Estar had a setup to break stuff similar to yours. One of the things he found, and the reason for my comment has to do with the different kinds of stitching I saw in this video. What we found was that stitching that runs parallel to the webbing, like a fairly popular X-Box stitch, fails because the device under test stretches before it breaks and that stretching breaks the stitching. I could see that happening on some of your tests. That is the advantage of having a series of bar tacks. The thread is not stretched as the material is pulled. I use my Sailrite zig-zag machine to put home made bar tacks in webbing. Estar tested that and it was super good enough. BTW, I am wondering if there is a harness that is a comfortable as a Bosuns chair for climbing a mast.

[noonpatrol]

Sacrificing so much of your personal gear that has so much sentimental value for science is pretty badass. Thank you!

[BurnerJones]

I don't even climb rocks, I bought a harness to work on sailboat rigging because I dislike the bosun's chair. Yet I've spent the last week watching these videos every night just out of curiosity. Good stuff man.

[wagbagsag]

Presumably the reason belay loops are only required to be 15kn while everything else is over 20kn is that any piece of gear (other than the belay loop) could be clipped to a bolt or gear placement when catching a lead fall, which puts twice as much force on that component as the belay loop

[richardf]

One of My Absolute Favorite Channels to Watch! Your such An ASSET to Your Climbing Community! Although I'm a 71 year old Active Arborist I Truly Love the Passion You Have for Your Sport!

[nathanpage]

I have been watching for a long time and love a good Soft Shackle. you are a true Asset to the community and you dive deeper into the rabbit Holes than anyone really should. Butt our community still has so much to learn, so I Plug your channel to all of my friends.

[edwardsmoliak]

Maybe a good test would be running a belay loop on the machine that simulates wear (like years of rappelling and friction) and then testing it? A clean cut might be quite different from cyclical loading and friction when you're break testing. Just a thought!

[wdlindberg]

Plastics in general are resistant to acids because they are hydrophobic (don't absorb water). This is a vast generalization but for the plastics you are testing and the acids climbing gear might come in contact with in a house or car it is true enough. I would be much more worried about plastics coming in contact with common solvents (gasoline, mineral spirits, motor oil, etc.). Plastics in general are not resistant to these chemicals as these chemicals tend to be absorbed into or actually dissolve plastic. I can imagine that there is a solvent that would badly damage the belay loop but leave no obvious outward visual queue of that damage. Another possibility is bleach (laundry or pool chemicals), as the oxidizing effect would be similar to sun damage (fibers become brittle). Keep up the good work.

[bonefishboards]

Todd Skinner was a hero of mine. Most psyched climber I have ever met.

[wyskass]

The narrow girth hitched sling cutting the belay loop was insightful. Maybe thin strong webbing is better used just against metal, and not against other webbing.

[rockklimber]

Todd Skinner died because his harness was old and had a very worn belay loop. His partner noticed this while they were rappelling g and pointed it out and Todd replied that he had a new one on order. If he he headed his partners warning his death could have been prevented in several easy ways: clip his belay device biner directly into hos tie in points. Thread a 4ft sling through his tie-in points, equalize and tie and overhand knot and clip the belay device biner to this extension point, Make a backup belay loop with a piece of cord, etc.
The accident was caused by human error, not because belay loops are dangerous.
In real world scenarios you will never find a scenario where you come close to 16kN of force on a belay loop.

[dryerflyer]

If I had any interest in actually climbing myself, I would buy from your store. I am living vicariously through you. All I have to offer is a thumb's up.

[kevinscheetz]

It would be interesting to use a seam ripper or razor and specifically compromise the bar tacks.

[TonySpinach]

I just checked out your shop for the first time, and it's incredible!! You have literally everything and so much info on everything and the layout is fantastic. It's like the shop every climber dreamed it could be like. Well done Ryan!

[dubhunter]

Since cutting through the webbing does not weaken it enough, what if the rubbing over the years abraded the bar-tack stitching on one side (since that seems to be the breaking point on most of these). If that is true, it would make the "infinite" loops much safer from normal wear and tear.

[AdairDouglass]

I am not a climber I used to do highrise window cleaning and I also painted water towers. It has been about 15 years since the last time. I never had any accidents or failures of equipment or safety gear. I am haunted by one of the times my failure to use safety gear left me in a precarious situation. I was obviously able to stay calm enough to get myself out of the situation. As we know being able to trust in the gear is what gives the convenience to do these things either for occupation or pleasure. Gear fear is most certainly a real phenomenon and could be debilitating. I am still intrigued about this subject and thank you for creating this content.

[ColbyAzimuth]

I don't climb, but I'm about 93 hours into your channel.
So I setup a zipline low and slow, and life is happy.

21:08 -- Tridundancy! 😃