Two PhD Scientists Debate Evolution vs. God!

Watch Dr. Nathaniel Jeanson's recent debate on the NonSequitur Show with Dr. Herman Mays Jr. of Marshall University.

Forty years ago, the creation/evolution debates were in full swing. In more recent years, evolutionists have rarely taken the stage against creationists. Exceptions to this rule occur, such as the Ken Ham/Bill Nye debates. But evolutionists generally avoid sharing the lectern with creationists. On September 5, this rule was broken again.

[gsgidney]

Mays really just should have admitted he didn't read the book, and thought he would rely on his own knowledge to attempt to debunk the book... rather unprofessional.
Especially since he made several claims about the work, yet never cited a single point from the book.

[rubiks]

Mays immediately begins (and goes on for a while) attacking the person rather than addressing the science.

[silverbackhayabusa]

It's funny how condescending Dr. Mays is with Dr. Jeanson acting as though Dr. Jeanson doesn't understand fundamental concepts yet when repeatedly challenged to factually counter something from Dr. Jeanson's book, Dr. May shows he either doesn't understand the book or didn't read the book.

Again, when you get someone who is effectively an atheist (despite his denials) and you try to engage them on the science they insist we follow, they get caught up in their own smug fantasies of superior self and can't even engage in a simple, rational discussion of the subject at hand.

Dr. Mays is stuck on supposing what Dr. Jeanson believes or has written about because he simply lacks the ability to objectively engage on the topic. My guess is that as a university professor, Dr. Mays is heavily limited in his science because his employment and research funding insist on a specific conclusion and do not allow for any deviation regardless of what the actual science of the subject says.

[anthonypolonkay]

On the topic of the coelecant times for mitochondrial vs nuclear genes, Mays obviously didn't read the book. Nuclear genes are unreliable for use as a genetic clock precisely because they are heterzygotic, and the combination between. Your mother, and fathers DNA to make you makes it nearly impossible to know what changes were the result of generational mutations, and what changes were the result of the heterozygotic rearrangement of nucleotide base pairs.
This is not an issue for mitochondrial, and Y chromosome DNA since it is only passed down by 1 parent, and it's not rearranged with conception like nuclear DNA is. That means every difference in Y chromosome, or mitochondrial DNA, from parent to child is the result of mutation. And since you can know that for sure, you can use it as a clock unlike nuclear DNA. This means the entire point about nuclear DNA having higher coalescing times is moot, as the mitochondrial times are observable in operational science today, where as the nuclear DNA coalescing times are theoretical ideas based upon the idea we must have evolved/have common ancestry with apes.

[silverbackhayabusa]

[Paraphrasing]

Dr. Jeanson - "I propose we get together and performance science together to test my hypothesis thus proving or debunking what I've proposed."
Dr. Mays putting on a condescending smirk - "You're wrong because you only talk about mitochondrial DNA. We have better ways using nuclear DNA."
Dr. Jeanson - "I have a whole chapter on nuclear DNA."

[tecora]

Mays is something else…he never read the book he only skimmed the book. He is very disrespectful and Unprofessional. Dr Jeanson was very gracious and respectful. I felt bad he had to endure all this.

[EternalVisionToday]

1:00:25 This has been a consistent theme by Dr. Mays that he isn't for the atheistic bias using science against Christianity, but just excellence in science.

[martinjan]

Dr. Mays mentions Theobald paper on common ancestry test ...

here are some comments on this paper (a mainstream scientist commented)

Quote:
"Theobald (Nature 465, 219–222 (2010)) recently challenged this problem with a formal statistical test applied to aligned sequences of conservative proteins sampled from all domains of life and concluded that the universal common ancestor hypothesis holds. However, we point out that there is a fundamental flaw in Theobald’s method which used aligned sequences. We show that the alignment gives a strong bias for the common ancestor hypothesis, and we provide an example that Theobald’s method supports a common ancestor hypothesis for two apparently unrelated families of protein-encoding sequences (cytb and nd2 of mitochondria). This arouses suspicion about the effectiveness of the “formal” test."

— Masami Hasegawa ( Department of Statistical Modeling, Institute of Statistical Mathematics, Japan )

[gsgidney]

52:50 Mays says a "gene makes".
I'm sure that sort of thing just randomly happened over time, and the gene just knows what to make

[valerieprice]

He insults the book and the author without having read the book. It doesn't surprise me. These secular guys are so rude and ignorant. The idea that "whales had legs" and they "returned to the ocean" comes from the skeletons found in the desert in Egypt, which are similar to whales, but they were a completely different animal, with legs, but too heavy to have been land animals. They were found in the desert, so people thought they lived on land. They were buried in Noah's Flood. Modern whales have two bones that serve as attachments for reproductive muscles, but people used to think those bones were "vestigial leg bones". Either this fellow needs to go back to school, or he knows, and he's counting on people to be so ignorant, they just believe his prevarication. Falsehoods are a serious problem with corporate, secular "scientists", so I wouldn't put it past him.

[Geoffroxx]

"Dr" Herman Mays One either Believes the the Bible or one DOESN'T, I'll tell You NOW, There's a LOT more science in God's word than in the ALL Pro Darwinian literature ever written.
Nathaneal's works aren't God's word, but they agree with it.

[markthomas]

They have very different dispositions. I think the day is coming when the proud man who think he knows so much will have his eyes opened to how wrong he was about all his "intelligents". While the humble man who is no less intelligent is found to be right all along.

[CaptainFantastic]

Dr Jeanson keeps saying that these objections aren’t discussed in the book and he fails to realize that’s precisely the issue…. The things he chooses to omit

[kriskhinson]

It feels so good to hear that hardened Atheists are running! Hopefully, they'll have the courage to run away from Atheism.

[Harrypprice]

Observations: Dr. Herman Mays failed his assignment. He is your garden variety professor/doctor that uses snickering, belittlement, and ad hominem attacks instead of actually participating in the debate. His opening statements are crass, childish, and inaccurate, not adding a speck to the quality of the debate. This is not the type of person that you want your children to learn from. Dr. Mays' temper flareups say to me he is threatened by Dr. Jeanson. Nor did Dr. Mays successfully complete his assignment and did not correctly interpret Dr. Jeanson's arguments. Furthermore, Dr. Mays was not willing to go further and analyze the data proposed by Dr. Jeanson regarding the DNA of African slaves.

[stevefrench]

Mr hays woke up on the wrong side of the bed
Started angry and was not objective enough to have a good conversation

[markthomas]

Couldn't God have made a whale similar in DNA and structure to another land animal? If God is the Creator than he can repeat patterns and use similar DNA as He wants to.

[steventhompson]

Are the debates over young earth vs old earth going to last forever? The debates over heliocentric vs geocentric and flat earth vs round earth didn't go on forever...
When will the young earth vs old earth stuff stop being an issue? Don't we have enough to go on now? How much more needs to be discovered or researched to settle this?

[gsgidney]

Where are the fossils of the billions of transitional species?
There should be TONS of Monkey-Fish, Dog-Fish or Sloth-Fish fossils somewhere, because...after all, the claim is we all came out of the ocean....

[christopher]

This is the second debate I’ve seen where someone mentions the substitution rates and it’s the second time I’ve seen Jeanson’s main defense be “have you read my book?” instead of answering the question posed.