HIGH END AUDIO vs BUDGET GEAR! The Law of Diminishing Returns in Hi-Fi

HIGH END AUDIO vs BUDGET GEAR! The Law of Diminishing Returns in Hi-Fi
A viewer wrote in and asked at what price points do I think the law of diminishing returns takes hold when discussing audiophile and home theater components? I do my best to break this question down by category, as well as share THREE BIG FACTORS that contribute to you experiencing diminishing returns in your own system.

Loudspeakers are a great example. I've encountered numerous $500 bookshelf speakers that are as good if not better than $1500-2500 speakers. Of course, the opposite is always true but that fact is that there are a lot of brands that punch well above their price bracket leaving you to spend 1000s more for a real noticeable improvement. So you have to ask yourself, how much is going from 90% as good to 100%? How much is that last 10% worth to you?

The 3 Biggest Factors that contribute to the law of diminishing returns of your own audio system.

1. Personal taste
2. Your listening space
3. Age

Remember the only person that has to like the sound of your system is YOU.

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[colliswatson]

Andrew you hit it right on the head at the end. I am 80 years old and love my vinyl on my old technics table. No use to upgrade as my hearing aids can't tell the difference. I am happy with what I have and as you say I only have to please myself. LOL

[louismeluso]

I'm 64 y/o. I've been an audiophile since the '70s. I don't want to think of the money I've spent over the years chasing hi-fi sound (mostly tube stuff). Now with a super inexpensive and efficient Crown XLS 1502/ Emotiva PT-100/ Polk RTi /SVS 2.1 system (in a treated room), I get FANTASTIC sound reproduction. Are my ears as good as when younger? No. Is the sound still fantastic? Yes! This is truly the golden age of hi-fi. I would have done backflips to get this level of sound quality, at these prices, years ago. I can't get over how good solid-state has gotten in the last twenty years.

[englishguy]

45 years ago, or thereabouts, I bought my first real hifi system. Quad 33/303, Michelle Focus 1 with SME3009 and a pair of Kef Concerto's. Over the next 25 years various components were changed and "upgraded". Not really sure if they were truly upgraded or I just bought into the latest blurb at the time. Now I am 66 years old, living abroad where good hifi is hard to come by, small room sizes and one ear that only works at about 10% efficiency have made me seriously change my listening habits. I now have a custom built laptop computer with a good DAC and a pair of Audioengine 2+ speakers. A big change for me, but what I have discovered is that I really enjoy the sound of this meager set-up. It certainly is not the best in terms of hifi systems but it is enjoyable enough that I listen every day and I am listening to Bach, Diana Krall, John Coltrane, The Beatles, Creedance Clearwater, Fleetwood Mac, Simon & Garfunkel, Emmylou Harris, Willie Nelson and a whole lot more. What I discovered was something I wish I had learned many years ago was this, ignore the cost, ignore other peoples opinions, ignore fashion, just find something YOU enjoy and enjoy it.

[spooner]

As you said. "If it sounds good to you, that's all that should matter". Never buy to impress.

[rorykurek]

Wow, this is by far the best "audiophile" content I've yet seen on YouTube. So refreshing to see someone with a reasonable and rational perspective on this stuff!

[leonardkrasner]

The system I had built between 1974-1980 would cost me about $12, 000 today. I didn’t have all of the responsibility I have today, which means I can’t afford to spend that on a system. Today I have about $2000 in my system and it gives me pretty good sound. I listen to music not the equipment.

[nucciol]

How dare you have a common sense audiophile discussion! Love the transport comment! Go Andrew!

[AndyBHome]

I really like that Andrew didn't shy away from just offering price ranges/points. Thank you! I think this is one of my favorite HiFi discussions and one of my favorite HiFi videos of the last year.

[CecilSaxon]

The irony of audiophiles-

Music being recorded with mediocre equipment being listened to on ridiculously expensive equipment.

[rome]

I'm glad you addressed the last point. I'm 42 years old. I've played music in bands, recorded and mixed my own music, and listened to music daily for over 25 years. I recently realized I can't hear much over 13.5 kHz. Some of it is probably chronic sinus issues. But a lot of it is just hearing loss. For that reason, I like fairly bright speakers. I also don't need a ton of low end because it just masks the high end for me. Realizing this has helped informed my purchases. If someone describes a speaker as "warm" or "dark, " chances are that I won't love it. All that said, I'd like to think I'm not enjoying music any less.

[michaelb]

Great video and dare I say it, a lot more truthful than most other audiophile channels.

[floydteter]

A couple of really good points made here. Thank you for another great video. 

I'm one of those older audiophiles. Was deeply involved when I was young, left it behind when other priorities (marriage, children, professional development) became more important. And just recently returned. At 64, my hearing is not what it once was - especially in the higher frequencies. There are times I can swear that I feel extreme highs, but I can't always hear them. So the ceiling at which I hit the law of diminishing returns is probably lower than someone younger. The budget bookshelf speakers of today (in my case, Yamaha NS-6490) serve just fine - never would have even given these a look when I was younger. I'll eventually upgrade, but will likely limit myself to either $500 floor speakers or simply adding a sub-woofer. And you're correct - as someone who was an extreme audiophile back in the 70's, today's lower cost/performance is astounding to me.

[randall]

Could you please do a video on the "Law of my diminishing wallet"?

[jonathanschwarz]

Andrew, great video. I wanted to add/touch on a point you didn't bring up. There's a point on the curve of diminishing returns where people will find the best "value" to them, but then also be faced with potential buyers remorse (what if i went a little higher, or different product). I consider myself a very "value" based audio hobbyist. And i wanted to mention a few other options/considerations. 1....the used market. Used gear (in great shape) shifts the entire curve upwards, as now you are obtaining gear above the point of diminishing returns but for the same cost! Can only afford an all-in $5, 000 system? Great, get a $10, 000 system for the same price...used. or 2 .... If you're not into used gear, then get "new gear" marked down. Every year Denon / Marantz and everyone else releases the refresh of their receivers. x6300, x6400, x6500. When they come out they're all $1, 000 - $1, 500. Wait for the new model that has right now at most 3 upgraded features you may never use, and get last years model for HALF PRICE. We're at the stage where new formats aren't coming out every year, Atmos and DTS:X will be the dominant format for the next 5-10 years (and most folks don't have the space to even fully utilize those!). Get last years model brand new for half the price. Or last years Pre-pro for half price and use the savings on the amp! Speakers don't refresh as often, but they do, so get something to hold you over for now, and if you got your eye on something for a while that you've always wanted, wait for a new model to come and get the old one NEW but discounted (or used). My Klipsch RF7s were closeout half price, brand new, no tax, free shipping when the RF7ii was announced. $, 6000 Cornwalls? the Cornwall 4 was just released, if you want heritage go snag up some Cornwall 3s for closeout, or B-stock. Things like this dramatically shift the entire diminishing returns curve upwards, or you can stay where you are on the curve, and use all the savings on room treatments or other areas of your setup. I've learned there's no point buying the brand new of anything. Next eyar will always have a brand new. As you say, you can get 90% of the way there before having to spend a ton more on the curve. With these tips, you can shift the curve and get 95% of the way there for the same price, or keep the 90% and use the savings elsewhere. TVs drop even more! Last years top of the line 75" TV goes from $7, 500 to $3, 500. And you only gain maybe 2-3%. a 65" can go from $2, 500 to $1, 500.

[tbone]

For $100 on facebook market place I got a 12 year old setup in immaculate condition. It included 250 watt Yamaha NS-777 tower speakers, 500 watt Yamaha amp and two 270 watt Yamaha subwoofers. My friend couldn't believe how little the difference was (to him at least), comparing my system and the $60, 000 800 series B&W/Classe system he inherited from his father.

[billwillard]

It’s always the issue, where that point of diminishing returns kicks in. Some of us might not get to that point due to financial considerations, but if you’re consistently buying new equipment and are having a really hard time telling which one you prefer, you’ve probably reached it for yourself. Sometimes it’s different flavors as opposed to better/worse.

[aneedkassim]

u can buy the most expensive gear and it still wont sound good if u dont have the right room treatment setting etc... just love what u have and enjoy it with no worries of what others think.

[JPA]

Your numbers, or level of the beginning of diminished return are exactly, and I mean exactly the numbers that I've experienced. Which is why with my budget I can't see spending over $500 on used, $700 new on speakers, around $300 on a DAC, and i use a Goodwill CD player (which was a top of the line Yamaha in 2000) for a transport. I use vintage power amps so I get thousands of dollars worth of quality for $350 on down. I hav a lot of equipment, but I can put different combos together that I may have $1000 all in, that easily competes with a $5000 (or well more) system. Thanks for covering this topic, and doing it from such an experienced perspective.

[joepop]

This is why I am subscribed to this channel. Common sense take on diminishing returns especially concerning DACs and transports. My personal bias is I tend not to believe the huge sonic differences reported for digital equipment without some data. Either measurements with results that show differences that would be audible, or carefully level matched blind listening tests. Brent Butterworth did this years ago with DACs and the consensus was the sonic and difference between the DACs was so minor, that the panel members wondered why anybody would spend the extra money for it.

[iowaudioreviews]

Cost of my system when the gear was new probably about $2500. I purchased everything used over the years for about $500. Been very happy with this system, I believe its gotten me 80%+ of what I expect. Thanks Andrew, this video helps me confirm my thoughts on the diminishing returns of audios cost to performance.