High end amps vs. pro amps

Pro power amplifiers cost less and are valued by the experts, yet high-end audio manufacturers would have you believe there's are better. Why?

[bdockett]

Pro audio amps and Crown Drivecore amps in particular have gained a legitimate foothold in the home audio world and no doubt Crown is enjoying every penny of it. Crown has the design/engineering ability to capitalize on this relatively new revenue stream and I am looking forwards to seeing this happen. The Crown Class D amps are only going to get better. I am using a Crown XLS 2502 to drive four 10" subs in a pair of sealed cabinets for home theater. The headroom in this setup, the shear ability to cleanly go beyond what I'll ever need is fantastic.

[ecyfoto]

This subject keeps popping up. I find it interesting because so much of the recorded music we listen to was actually mastered using “pro” equipment. Makes your head spin, doesn’t it.

[Bassotronics]

I’m actually scared to read the comments on this one.

[svtcontour]

We did a blind listening test a while back - all amps calibrated to the same reference output. The amp that came out on top (to our own surprise) was a fairly modestly price class AB pro studio amplifier - ART SLA1. The second was a class A audiophile amplifier, third was a Crown XLS amp and then below that a mid-fi amp (older Adcom). So always go by listening blind if possible.

[goffe]

I'm running Crown Drivecore 2s.... I love these things to death. They sound great.

[supes]

I have owned a few high end power amps, parasound, atc, bryston etc
Non of them sound as good as my crown xls 2002 amp. This is my personal experience.
Every amp has some trade off qualities as nothing is perfect. With the crown I can hear so much more clearly the sound of my front end, source, Dac. The crown doesnt add or take away anything.
From my experience It is all about synergy and less about choosing specific components.

[JPHMP]

As a Sound Engineer in the commercial audio space I can agree that most Crown amps do sound different and weird, but that doesn't mean that they are commercial audio standards for the whole industry. The Crown XLS is Crown's most basic and lowest quality amplifier they sell with a price point from $340 to $650 Crown has other amplifiers like the Crown XTi 2 Series, Crown I-Tech HD Series and Macro-Tech i Series these amplifiers are worlds apart and sound excellent can go from $650 to $10, 000. Crown makes amplifiers at different price points. Price doesn't always translate to quality in hi-fi and pro audio/commercial alike. At the end, it’s still audio technology with different applications.

Let’s be real, Crown isn't the only one manufacturer there is. There are other amplifier manufacturers that sound more pleasing and natural/neutral sounding than Crown. Like QSC, Powersoft, Lab Greppen, L acoustics, Crest Audio, MC2 Audio, Dynacord, Peavey, EV, etc.

I had heard misinformation that Commercial Audio amplifiers do not have the same level of circuitry components in Home HI-FI amplifiers which is not true and pretty far from it.

Commercial Audio and Hi-Fi are just marketing terms, because Commercial audio is also Hi-Fi or High fidelity (often shortened to hi-fi or hifi) is a term used by listeners, audiophiles, and home audio enthusiasts to refer to high-quality reproduction of sound. Ideally, high-fidelity equipment has inaudible noise and distortion, and a flat (neutral, uncolored) frequency response within the human hearing range. Commercial Audio equipment can also do this too.

Now speakers are for another topic, but to keep it short Commercial Audio does have amazing speakers for sound reproduction.

[bayard]

Fair enough, sorta. I have a system made of pro speaker drivers, pro amps and preamp, acoustics by me (speaker design and build and room acoustics), the goal was to get a sound I like more than that of audiophile gear (that over smooths and sweetens the crap out of stuff until only 5% of recordings sound good with it) if possible, to get greater dynamics and musicality. I did this experiment on a low budget, $1500 for amps and speakers (not including preamp). Doing this project I learned a ton. One major thing I learned is that if you treat pro gear like it’s hiring gear... proper cables and power cords, great speaker acoustic design, room acoustics, resonance and vibration elimination, the works, and if you do it well... you’ll be blown away how good low priced but reputable pro gear can be. I can back from capital audiofess a few years ago, long before this rig was decent or sorted, and doing a direct comparison to the insanely priced gift gear... I was more than pleased with my frankinbuild. The system is fully sorted now and is the single most musical setup I can recall listening to. It is very transparent and totally honest, it plays what you feed it and does not embellish or artificially sweeten. About 99% of what I’ve played through it sounds great, take crappy old recordings, it presents them in a way that does not shin an artificially harsh light on the recording but does let you hear what they people who made it heard, as in you can easily identify with the good music in the antique recording and not be dragged down by the blemishes. Play something modern and super well recorded and it lets all of that through in fine style. It played effortlessly to over 110 db all day long if you could stand that, plays quietly nicely. All around addictive stuff. I have high with bowers and Wilkins speakers and it took me 14 years and massive acoustics treatments and just insane and expensive effort to make that setup sound -not completely shitty as in the worst most frustrating system ever- I mean, sure, after 4.5 years of extensive acoustics studies and endless experiments and such it now sounds very good in most aspects, it’s musical and sweet and etc. and if I go In my workshop/art studio and turn on the pro rig... after one track I pretty much forget about the b&w system. So for sure there are a few points of the hifi sound that are nice, but for me that is not actually necessarily indicative of what I think is most important in sound. And I’ll guarantee you there is pro gear that is top of the heap regardless of classification. The key is for one to dig deep inside and identify what really floats your boat with sound and make that system. If you like smoothed out sanitized sound, go for crap hifi, if you like less, flavored go for a 599k$ hifi... but there are those of us who want something else, something properly used pro gear can deliver. My 2¢

[HarmonicMolecues]

Despite the slight to marginal audio difference, it is mostly a cost factor. Most pro amps are built in huge numbers which drives the cost down and hence tons of them get sold. Audiophile amps are built in low numbers a likely by hand, this raises the cost plus add in exoteric parts and a sky high profit margin to help keep said company afloat and you get an expensive amp that only sounds 5 to 10% better at best (versus a good pro amp, not a cheap one). Sound is of course subjective, so if you base sound purely on specifications, most amplifiers perform well. What makes a good amplifier sound better, first its reactance to the load it is driving, its slew rate, IMD, dampening factor and power reserves (dynamic headroom). Bi-polar, MOS-FET, push-pull, darlington, cascaded pairs, whatever, they all have a sound but like a microphone preamp they contribute only a small amount to the sound. Class A, A/B, D, etc. also have become blurred as each technology has almost achieved the pinnacle of its design. Your speakers matter more for sound (and your room) than anything else, bar none. Replace the amplifier with 2 other good designs and the change in sound is barely noticeable, I would blind test anyone on this. Do not talk about interconnects, speaker cables, IOS-pucks, power conditioners (although a balanced transformer is a good thing) or even the source as major contributors, they are not

[recoverlostdata]

Pro audio is like Science. Hifi audio is like Religion.

[mothbhai]

Hmm Paul. I love your series. This is the first one that made me cringe :-) But it’s ok - this was shot too close to your heart. I think this question deserves a double take with some serious thinking. One thing I’d love to hear you explain is - how come we are always chasing that live show experience with our hifi equipment - and what we are trying to recreate is the sound coming from these pro gear.

[SantanKGhey]

Paul, im going to respectfully disagree with your comment on putting a Crown in an Audiophile room... well i just did... Mine...

coincidentally you put out this topic... i ordered an XLS2002 from Amazon just for -hits and giggles... to compare vs my MC602 and Emotiva XPA DR2... I have been AB testing for 3 days straight... Every time my ears go to the Crown... thats all i have to say with that... I have much respect for Paul and PS audio, however i really believe your team should benchmark the XLS Drivecore2 series, disect it for what its worth and understand why people are loving this amp for the money... aside from anesthetics, its sound quality blows amps 10x its price out of the

[oetken]

Every time I am watching one of your interesting and helpful videos I am enjoying the finale credits. It feels like the golden 80s. Thank you for your videos! Greetings from Germany

[davidhardaker]

It's called being able to fleece someone. Pro gear has to live in a commercial world delivering quality at a realistic price. Domestic hi-fi gear has has no limits - price wise of course

[bcoffee]

I have spent 20 years using Crown, QSC and other pro amps. I am also an audiophile and over the years owning dozens of makes. The pro amp has to stand up to a lot of abuse on the road. It gets bumped and driven hard. They all have fans to cool the insides. The design also needs to provide high power output.
Audiophile amps are much lower in power since most only have to cover a living room. My pro amps range from 300 watts per channel up to 1000. My audiophile amps run from 50 to 200 watts. The audiophile amps need to run quieter. Audiophile amps need good stereo imagining and need to provide depth and dynamic range to the music.
So we are talking about different goal so you get different amplifiers. Ditto with speakers.

[rongoodman]

Hey Paul you are right on one point. The final test is how it "sounds" to an educated ear...a music lover. As someone who has been an audiophile for a half century and a musician. I would put my humble Douk P1 going into a Behringer A500 Reference Amp driving upgraded Kipsch Belles with Klipsh subs and put it up against anything I have heard in the "upscale" listening I have. Do not dismiss the "damn I just spent $100K so I must have the best" reflex in human psychology.

[swinde]

Back in the 70s-80s, Crown produced the Crown DC300 power amp. It was offered as a high end audio power amp as well as a pro-amp for musicians.
Neil Diamond had stacks of them at his concerts.
One feature of the amp was that it could drive a 70.7 volt distribution line directly.

[tommyteeth]

I'll put my old Crown K2 up against a comparable priced "high end" amp. Paul actually gave zero information as to why the high end was better. Pretty lame actually.

[jamband]

Paul this whole conversation sounds a little outdated. You can buy a 350w×2 crown amp for $350 and you can also buy a 1000×4 $11, 000 crown amp. One is used for small dj setups and one is used for large 20, 000+ live applications. Where they fly 12-14 speakers per side. Yes there durable as hell but one is built to sound ok and one is built to sound to great. I mean when we talk about being in a room where the speakers disappear and you can pinpoint where the artists is and where the vocalist is. This is our reference. Were referring to hearing the artist in a live setting. Not all audiophiles listen to jazz singers in a lounge setting some of us listen to large concerts in a venue like madison square garden or an outdoor venue of 20, 000+ people. Sure it would cost you 20 million dollars to recreate that expirence at home with giant double 21" subwoofers and 24 speakers hanging from your living room ceiling. But I contend that a good crown amp sounds great for it application. They don't generally make 4000 watt audiophile grade amplifiers because they simply arnt nessesary and a crown amp in your living room wouldn't be practical and dosent look as pretty but I belive the crown sounds just fine for audiophile applications. I mean how closely are you listening to your music? Are you enjoying it or are you dissecting it? But again if your recreating the live sound event your recreating the sound of a crown amp in the first place so why wouldn't the original sound just as good if not better than the recreated sound?

[LoveOutLoudonutube]

As a sound engineer installer in my past over the years of doing upgrades I have found economically for a lot of my customers it wasn’t necessarily the inexpensive amp they used as it was the crappy speakers they had 75% of the time I would just put in at that time I was a bag end dealer a set of new speakers and it made a world of difference. It was not the absolute best option but it was the option that fit their budget. My motto is if you’ve made it sound a little better you’ve made life a little better