Paul Ehrlich: “Was the Population Bomb Defused?” | The Great Simplification #09

On this episode, we meet with Professor Emeritus of Population Studies at Stanford University and author of The Population Bomb, Paul Ehrlich.

Ehrlich discusses what has happened with the human population situation in the decades since he published The Population Bomb. Why has humanity not responded to our long-term sustainability challenges? How would Ehrlich frame contemporary discussions about population?

In a wide-ranging conversation spanning stories about his appearances on The Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson to how the environmental movement merged with corporate greenwashing, Ehrlich provides colorful and interesting commentary on the human predicament.

01:15 - Paul Ehrlich information and works
02:01 - The Population Bomb
02:21 - Population growth rate over time
03:11 - Johnny Carson
04:05 - Commonwealth club and Paul’s episode
05:53 - Genuine Progress Indicator
06:55 - Ecological polymath
07:15 - John Holdren
07:19 - IPAT equation
08:40 - Environmental impact of a person correlates with wealth
10:11 - 80-90% of carbon emissions in the world are by the top 10-15% wealthiest people
12:20 - The Race Bomb (co-authored with Shirley Feldman)
12:57 - Overshoot
13:56 - Tony Barnosky paper on 96% of biomass being humans and livestock
14:32 - 50% of nitrogen in our bodies comes from Haber-Bosch cycle
15:18 - Current 6th mass extinction event
16:46 - Energy Scientific Publications | Anthony D. Barnosky
17:53 - Sherwood Rowland and ozone depletion
18:58 - Norman Myers on extinction
21:37 - Number of malnourished people and child mortality
22:15 - Green Revolution
22:57 - Energy is the currency of life and this also applies to humans
23:15 - Kleiber’s law
23:39 - Thomas Malthus
24:22 - Energy surplus
24:36 - Economy’s imperative to grow and population
25:19 - Nuclear war risk
26:51 - Economics ‘circular flow model’
27:08 - We have over financialized the human experience
28:25 - Markets have long been a part of history
29:43 - Thorstein Veblen and Veblen Goods
29:23 - Conspicuous Consumption
30:17 - E.O. Wilson
31:06 - Silent Spring Rachel Carson
33:29 - The Social Conquest of Earth E.O. Wilson
34:49 - Changing age structure with slowed growth
35:41 - Humans have trouble with long term planning
36:44 - Proprioceptors
38:03 - Pseudo kin/Fictive-kin
39:36 - Women’s rights can reduce population humanely
41:17 - Our real history goes back 300,000 years
41:31 - Hunter gatherer groups were much more egalitarian
42:02 - Australian aboriginal paintings
43:15 - We have difficulty conceptualizing large numbers
44:14 - Greenwashing
44:41 - How does debt relate to ecology
46:54 - Second law of thermodynamics
47:15 - Superorganism
47:34 - Hoover institution
48:55 - Universities as mechanisms to help fight wars
49:45 - Criticisms of overpopulation theories
50:11 - Tucker Carlson
52:53 - Are borders ethical?
54:51 - De-development
55:22 - Niger-delta birth rate
56:48 - Population numbers do not necessarily represent strength
57:55 - Advance policy
59:25 - Avoiding a Ghastly Future
1:00:42 - Humans are highly social animals
1:01:32 - No one can be a completely self made millionaire
1:02:44 - The United States has used more hydrocarbons than any other country
1:02:54 - Garrett Hardin - ecolate
1:03:41 - Partha Dasgupta
1:07:45 - Pope Francis
1:08:35 - We can change consumption when incentivized
1:09:30 - One Earth Lifestyles
1:09:40 - We are creatures of our cultures
1:10:35 - US has 4% of the world population
1:10:48 - US holds 50% of the world’s medical prescriptions
1:11:39 - Rex Tugwell
1:13:21 - Indigenous North Americans’ ethics and social organization

#PaulEhrlich #NateHagens #TheGreatSimplification

[ronpetticrew]

Once again a great discussion, I've been interested in the topics that you cover for more than 3 decades now and have spoken my family and friends for as long but few are interested in these ideas and even fewer are interested in acting on the information.

[charlesmorschauser]

Paul is such a wise thinker . The planet ignores him at our peril. The sad part is we can't even discuss population or overconsumpion let alone come together for solutions

[Grizabeebles]

Listening to this episode following the overturning of Roe v. Wade in the United States is positively haunting.

[nickkacures]

Thanks for having Paul Ehrlich and to answer the question Paul was right all along

[zweiberg_betterliving]

I hope to be that progressive and open minded as professor Ehrlich, when I am in his age.
GREAT TALK, thanx Nate &
greetings from Europe,
Gernot

[treefrog]

To the point : 1 million seconds of TIME is the equivalent of about 11.5 DAYS. 1 Billion seconds of time is equal to 31.7 YEARS and a Trillion seconds of time is equal to 31, 700 YEARS!

[treefrog]

At this point in time the only truly noble hope that you CAN have is that Humanity will not simultaneously destroy the viability of the planet itself! The hope that Earth might regenerate itself long after we homo sapiens have disappeared is the only unselfish sentiment left available. We have truly proven that we do not deserve the nurturing habitat we have been fortuitously provided with. I feel ashamed and embarrassed over our naive arrogance and unquenchable, narrow-minded greed.

[christinearmington]

One of the best conversations I’ve heard online! Thanks 🤩❤️✅👍💐

[treefrog]

The true culprit is Human Exceptionalism. We homo sapiens see ourselves as the penultimate creation with a GOD-GIVEN dispensation to do whatever we want. Not as one participant in a 4.5 billion-year-old, multi-faceted, symbiotic expression of life itself. We have been assured by our prophets, philosophers and priests that life is all about us! I think we are finally understanding that it is not.

[Rosemountainfarm]

I am new to Nate and a total fan over here in NC. So much valuable information.

[jennysteves]

Great episode! Thanks so much for interviewing Dr. Ehrlich.

[BillHustonPodcast]

Thanks for having on Dr. Ehrlich! Great conversation.

[mikeharrington]

Paul is an incontrovertible expert on the human population's global ecological impacts. However, his suggestion that Americans might lower their birth rate to allow room for more immigration is pie in the sky in today's hostile partisan divide. In America poor families & poor single women often feel forced to use children as a welfare ticket, thus becoming an even more non-productive drain on the system.

Mao 's draconian 1-child strategy led to much human suffering & distortion of the male:female ratio but it was a major success story in controlling total numbers. Surely it makes more sense for social equilibrium to reward (with financial incentives/housing) women & families to encourage them to voluntarily have only 1 or 2 children to get them out of the poverty-breeding cycle/trap?

Some who decades ago foresaw our global predicament chose to have nil children to add to the sum total of human suffering yet population control may be too late now. Overwhelming current planetary overshoot, chemical pollution plus the climatic consequences of ecological destruction, intense drought/famine & wars are all gonna decimate populations on a catastrophic scale (sooner than we bear think). Julian Cribb writes extensively on the foregoing.

[rd]

we need an updated or revised edition of The Population Bomb - alternatively, an anthology of truthful writings by top scientists could follow up on this ghastly landmark work ?

[robertpaulson]

Love the show and insights. Been following Nate since the oil drum days. Wow - what a journey!!

[dasbof]

49:00 "If it were my choice I would lower our population further so we can be humane..." ??? How would you lower our population?

[Rosemountainfarm]

I need a class on how to talk to the non believers (deniers). How to enlighten those who have so much more than neccessary.

[nastaranrahnama]

Excellent discussion. It's always a pleasure to listen to Paul Ehrlich but I am grateful to find more wise scientists. Thank you for the interview. I love your comment on choosing not to have a child but adopted dogs!

[hankdusommeil]

Paul Ehrlich is one of my absolute heroes

[jesse]

Really enjoying your show and the insights of you and your guests. So glad you started a podcast Nate. May you have every success.