The Rebirth of God: Pathology and Promise | Jamie Wheal | EP 485

Dr. Jordan B. Peterson sits down with author and founder of the Flow Genome Project, Jamie Wheal. They discuss the death of God as it can be understood in the secular world, the new rise of Pharisees across mainstream religions, how to guard the proper aim against human corruption, and the true pathology of the culture wars — and who is leading it downward.

Jamie Wheal is the author of “Recapture the Rapture: Rethinking God, Sex and Death In a World That's Lost Its Mind” and the Pulitzer-nominated “Stealing Fire: How Silicon Valley,” “Navy SEALs,” and “Maverick Scientists Are Revolutionizing the Way We Live and Work.” He is also the founder of the Flow Genome Project, an international organization dedicated to the research and training of peak performance.

His work and ideas have been covered in The New York Times, Financial Times, Wired, Entrepreneur, Harvard Business Review, Forbes, Inc., and TED. He has spoken at Stanford University, MIT, the Harvard Club, Imperial College, Singularity University, the U.S. Naval War College and Special Operations Command, Sandhurst Royal Military Academy, the Bohemian Club, and the United Nations.

This episode was filmed on September 8th, 2024

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(0:00) Coming up
(0:37) Intro
(2:37) The death of God: secularized
(9:05) Nietzsche was wrong about this, the reiterating cataclysm
(11:56) Camille Paglia’s take on Eric Neumann
(13:52) Combatting the continual rise of the Pharisees, higher-order unity
(19:13) Kurt Anderson, religious schisms, and reformation
(23:46) “The Selfish Gene,” sexual reproduction, and the idea of randomness
(28:37) Insuring the proper aim against corruption, the four promises of the covenant
(36:57) The dopamine system and hero mythology
(38:37) The Biblical teachings on co-creation and stewardship: “It’s not a just-so story”
(44:39) The implicit moral order cannot be replaced by the presumptions of human beings
(47:27) The science of reiterative play disproves moral relativism
(58:11) The true pathology of the culture wars, bad actors weaponize high virtues
(1:07:03) 1 in 13 have Dark Tetrad traits, civility and anonymity
(1:14:16) Andrew Tate, the fallacy in leading with power
(1:16:20) Merit-based societies benefit everyone, not just those with merit
(1:18:40) Addressing economic disparity through economic freedom and the Judeo-Christian ethic
(1:25:58) What makes a society wealthy — and how that is emulated in Christ
(1:28:24) Jordan Peterson’s hopes for Elon Musk, the story of Job
(1:34:22) Strange new spiritualities that take the place of religion

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[johnmessenger]

I am always astounded how many people don't seem to understand that Dr. Peterson doesn't "interview" he has conversations and is kind enough to invite us to listen

[yunusmulla]

Dr. Peterson is really talking about God more and more and I am all fir that!

[Jak-cn]

This is probably the first time I’ve ever seen Jordan outmatched by the hand gestures.

[murphymomof]

I want more of Jamie Wheal! I think Jordan has met his intellectual match. 😊 Thank you for this conversation, both of you.

[emmasprout]

Jordan you give meaning, hope and wisdom to people who need it .
Thank you.
You’re a blessing to this world
✝️💛

[AFringedGentianToEnnien]

Dearest Dr. Peterson, you spoke very well indeed at the event yesterday. I can’t tell you how happy it made me to see you completely surrounded by people who love you, getting all the hugs, and getting to speak and to listen, all the while looking so well and so healthy. It looked like your day did you all the good in the world, just as I prayed that it might. You needed that.
I was so moved to see you praying the Lord’s Prayer with Russel because the last time I saw you pray that it was in a prayerful video you made when you were so desperately ill, and your face a mask of suffering, but your spirit shining through the brokenness of your body. And now you are well again, thank God again and again for it.
It was a blessed Michaelmas. I did my bit at home to rescue the republic. I brought my kids to church. I took them for a long autumnal walk and we picked flowers and berries and threw rocks in the river. I snuggled them and read to them from their children’s Bible. I made a big pot of chicken soup from scratch to feed them homemade food. And I watched the live stream event all day. I would have liked yo be with you all in person but for now, I was content to be with you in spirit.
With Ruth Anne’s love

[JC-qbwx]

St Augustine, Dr of the Church knew: Our hearts are restless until they rest in God, who is truth itself.
May everyone reading this have a blessed day.

[Cody-cb]

This quite literally may be one of the most important discussions I have ever witnessed in the entirety of my life thus far!! Just incredible absolutely incredible

[TheDrb]

Christendom has had a series of revolutions and in each one of them Christianity has died. Christianity has died many times and risen again; for it had a God who knew the way out of the grave.
G.K. Chesterton

[tracypewthatswho]

Show me a more engaging public intellectual than Jamie wheal. Love him

[Statico]

I hope the appropriate time to have Jamie Wheal back on the podcast is sooner rather than later. Great episode :D

[mr_butter]

Thank you for believing in me Jordan I prayed for Our Beautiful Tammy and Saved Her From Cancer. Glory Be to The Father, The Son, And The Holy Spirit Forever and Ever Amen

[thymethought]

My dude Jamie! Glad to see you guys talking. Now just need to get Daniel Schmachtenberger on, too

[frankfunkpt]

One of the best back and forth eye to eye conversations, I hear thus far on Dr. Petersons Podcast.

Lots of active listening on both sides, and that the guest ask clarifying questions of Dr. Peterson was great.

At times it was hard to tell who‘s podcast it was 😀👍 Fantastic.

[noughts]

summary of jordan's philosophy:
1. the spirit of adventure
2. the optimal game of maximum participation and maximum duration.
3. an implicit moral order is in the optimal game.

to learn more read his upcoming book "the spirit of adventure and the infinite game"

just roughhousing

[MRizzio]

The LIGHT that this conversation sheds at this very late hour is profound. I would love to listen to Jordan's exposition on the relationship between true LIGHT, LIFE, and LOVE.

[UrbanKizBeast]

Iraqi Christian in Australia, 35 years. Love the reference to the Eluma Ilish Mesopotamian story that Jordan coincides with the birth of Genesis - generally a symbiotic but often a predatory concurrent growth, 11:20

Proud of the contribution of my forebears on civilisational development even though it's not evident much now with the Islamic takeover of the Middle East.

Thanks again 👍🏼

[shannondelima]

I've read recapture the rapture. It was amazing. I want to listen to Jamie wheel! We already know what Jordan knows and feels. Jamie is one of the few secular voices that is trying to engage spirituality without falling back on monotheisms, such a potentially fertile ground of inquiry, and Jordan just sprinkles weed killer over all of it with his insistence of being the main voice in this discussion. Opposite of what he says around 54:35, probably due to guilty conscience 😅

[stvmx]

He is such an intelligent and interesting person to listen to.

[TheCerone]

Dr. Peterson, I’ve been a long time listener of you. I’ve posted many comments reaching out. How does someone who’s not socially high up have a conversation with you. I don’t ask for a lot in this life, and it would be a blessing the be able to talk. I’ve been on a crazy path of self discovery and growth. I also grew up without a father figure and believe that’s why I gravitate towards you as an ideal. Anyways I know this is another long shot, but worth it. Have a great day Jordan!