Oxalates cause Cancer. [Science Explained]

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Reference:
[1] Castellaro AM, Tonda A, Cejas HH, et al. Oxalate induces breast cancer. BMC Cancer. 2015;15:761. Published 2015 Oct 22. doi:10.1186/s12885-015-1747-2

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#oxalates #cancerrisk #cancer

[Physionic]

*2 NOTES & 2 AMENDMENTS:*

AMENDMENT:
1. @ibnsalah3932 pointed out that HEK293 cells have some debate on the type of cell they actually are, because they express neuronal proteins. This, then, creates confusion on if they are kidney cells or neuronal cells. Either way, I don't think it's anything that changes the interpretation of the data here, because neuronal cells are still different from breast cells, but it's still something to point out. Thank you for the correction
@ibnsalah3932 !

References:
Stepanenko AA, Dmitrenko VV. HEK293 in cell biology and cancer research: phenotype, karyotype, tumorigenicity, and stress-induced genome-phenotype evolution. Gene. 2015;569(2):182-190.

Shaw G, Morse S, Ararat M, Graham FL. Preferential transformation of human neuronal cells by human adenoviruses and the origin of HEK 293 cells. FASEB J. 2002;16(8):869-871. doi:10.1096/fj.01-0995fje

2. @mattermat1925 pointed out that @1:18 - the image shows oxaloacetate, instead of oxalates - they look similar, but that's an incorrect spelling - it should read 'oxalate' or 'oxalic acid', not oxaloacetate. Thank you for the correction @mattermat1925.

2 NOTES:
1. I expect to create more content looking at cancer risk, so this is preliminary, but if we track soy consumption (one of the highest oxalate containing foods) and breast cancer - there is a slightly *reduced* risk (see reference) with increasing soy intake. I realize this is association, but if oxalates have such tremendous pro-cancerous effects, we wouldn't see an inverse relationship, even by correlation. It's possible the overall effect of the diet overcomes any *potential* negative effects of oxalates in regard to cancer. Like I said, we need more data.

Trock BJ, Hilakivi-Clarke L, Clarke R. Meta-analysis of soy intake and breast cancer risk. J Natl Cancer Inst. 2006;98(7):459-471. doi:10.1093/jnci/djj102

2. @andybryant3052 asked if the mice were female, which is an important detail I failed to mention - the answer is yes, they were all female. To Andy's point, as well, it may matter in respect to menopause, as well. Great point.

[joecaner]

Note to self: Do not inject oxalates into my immunocompromised pet mouse.

[jamesherried]

Consuming oxalates orally is very different from injecting oxalates directly into the body. The 2 probably produce very different outcomes and results from each other.

[SuperVlerik]

Some things that puzzle me about this methodology of testing:
-use of mice with genetic lines predisposed to tumor development;
-direct injection of oxalates into tissue;
-what percentage of oxalates injected vs. reasonable normal and average dietary intake?

We're talking about possible risks of dietary intake by humans, right? Mixed with stomach acids, gut microflora processing...etc.

How comparable is any of this?

[zpfriem]

Last year I was diagnosed with early psoriasis. I discovered that a smoothie i was drinking daily for nearly 3 years had ~900mg oxolates per smoothie (recommended DV is 50-100mg), I cut it out of my diet and did a few other lifestyle changes and I now have zero psoriasis patches. This analysis makes me curious about cellular division in psoriasis patients’ epidermis. Any thoughts or insights?

[anonymouscoward]

The bothersome things are A) in nature you’re not taking up oxalates directly through muscle tissue/blood supply - digestion is a chemical process. B) dosage/compounds. how did they determine the exact molar concentration and in what form to equal the digested blood serum form.

[roschanvargonay]

What I think would be more interesting is a study how oxalates influence the uptake of certain minerals like Ca, Mg or Fe in the intestines. This is a bigger concern to me than the risk of breast cancer. I don‘t know if this has already been done.

[jimbrogan]

The volume of things we don't know increases exponentially with everything that we learn. The more we learn, the more we realize we don't know.

[jmc]

@5:06 ‘…is not in your cells to cause cancer.’ This is why I watch and support you Nic. How many on YT would either not know to clarify this or choose not to for clicks. A PhD friend in breast cancer researches would approve.

[anara]

Ok, but all oxalates come with fiber in vegetables. Do they cross intestinal lining readily in its purest form or are led out of the body? Who is injecting pure oxalates in the blood? 💢💢💢

[jamesm.]

I used to have severe, painful oxalate dumps... Do not recommend eating them AT ALL, especially if you have any gut problems and increased permeability.

[georgewright]

If you want to save yourself 16 minutes, he says after 15 min, "I don't see this study as proof that oxalates cause cancer."

[Zanuka]

I think one thing to consider is that in practice oxalates don't come in isolation. Black beans, for example, are high in oxalates, but they come with many good nutrients (if Im not mistaken) that help combat cancer; i.e. the whole package might be meaningful. Just a thought.

[anna]

I successfully trained myself to raise one eyebrow by simply holding one down while raising the other. I can’t remember how long it took (I was a teenager at the time and I’m now in my 60’s) but I don’t think it was very long, I didn’t have the patience. It’s a great way to project skepticism, keep trying!

[brennus]

Just to be safe, I'm going to stop injecting oxalate into my chest. I'll find another way to bring up my lagging pecs.

[imigrantpunk]

Huge problem with mouse studies that vast majority do not lead to any meaningful/ true observations or interventions in humans

[vivian]

I'm 56 and got a kidney stone. When I looked into that issue I discovered the word oxalate. And what do you know - i had increased the amount of spinach leaves into my vegetable juices (just cos the bag of spinach was going off so quickly) and spinach is massively high in oxolates. So glad that happened before I used them more in my juices

[igniz-rpic]

Oxalates is just one of many chemical defense substances present in plants

[raraavis]

I just can't get over, how complicated something as seemingly simple as diet is.

[tewtravelers]

Fermentation can cut down up to 70% of oxalates, reducing possible side effects of beets. Try making some kvass, if you haven't already.