Ben Bayer & Yaron Discuss Altruism, Religion & Wokeism | Yaron Interviews

00:00 Intro
00:55 Ben Bayer
02:10 Altruism and religious mindset in the secular world?
11:20 Why does altruism require religion?
14:46 What has made altruism so sticky/influential?
19:08 Nietzsche and Spinoza alternatives to altruism
21:45 How does Kant secularize altruism?
25:05 Modern secular movements inspired by religion
33:55 What is wokism and how is it religious?
36:35 How is altruism shaping the woke phenomenon?
43:20 Effective Altruism

Live Questions:
54:19 Do you think the non-Abramic religions are as altruistic? Buddhism and Hinduism, for example, seem to be very anti-individual and irrational in their own ways, but are they also altruistic?
57:59 What is the connection between altruism and dependence and/or egoism and independence?
58:59 Should “It’s a Wondeful Life” be rebooted as an egoistic character study? What if George Bailey followed his dreams and embraced rational self interest? The story wouldn’t even need an angelic intervention.
1:04:55 An outstanding discussion! Thanks!
1:04:58 Do you think sociopaths and predatory people are reacting against altruism? Or did they skip over altruism all together and come to the conclusion that being exploitative and manipulative were the way to go through life?
1:08:56 I know saying "the common good" is referencing a collective, but I think saying "the greater good" is even worse. There are values that are commonly good for all individuals, but nothing greater than the individual.
1:09:59 You said RFK jr is just a conspiracy theorist regarding CIA. But he has first-hand experience that you ignored. He saw as a little kid CIA directors pressuring his uncle JFK to conform to their agenda before he was killed.
1:12:43 Is there any benefit to the eastern notions of "letting go" or "being unattached" (or even meditation to an extent) to help manage one's emotions - assuming one understands what one's values are and live egoistically?
1:16:15 Do effective altruists believe that their efforts to earn money in the first place (prior to giving it away) is useless, or even harmful?
1:18:32 Why won't scientists debate RFK jr? cowardice?
1:20:42 Is skepticism a secular form of mysticism? Or does it belong in its own category? Aren't mystics and skeptics equally likely to be altruists? They seem like two sides of the same coin.
1:23:47 Is Islam more altruistic than Christianity and Judaism? This is why the Muslim world has rejected the enlightenment more than Europe?
1:34:07 Have you read philosopher Helvetius who wrote about Egoism? Also, Pelagius, a heretic Christian who put free will and rational deeds above Grace?
1:39:58 How much would it cost to get Ben to review “The Good Place”? Or is Yaron the only one who does that?
1:41:22 Is the spirit of growth and progress greater than the force of altruism in peoples minds? I believe it is.
1:43:22 Who will the next Yaron Brook be? Anyone promising you're currently training at the OAC?
1:43:46 Ben, are you seeing students and faculty becoming more aware of Ayn Rand's ideas and taking her more seriously as a thinker than when you were last on Yaron's podcast?
1:47:25 Altruism and The Malevolent Universe Premise?
1:50:26 TOSCON has started this week and OCON is coming in July. Thoughts on them and to any of events later this year and in 2024? Events Ben will be at?
1:51:56 What does Ben think of the criticism of Rand’s presentation of Toohey that he’s too conscious of and purposive about his own evil?
1:52:46 Is RFK jr a tribal lonewolf? He went from left-wing environmentalist to right-wing anti-vaxer in a decade.
1:53:29 Yaron, a follow-up from previous question - based on Ben's answer, would a good way to summarize a proper view be: be rational and keep the full context (eg Ben's idea of don't sweat the small stuff)
1:54:02 Tips for burnout parents of 1 year old?How to regain focus/motivation? Prediction on US inflation,rates,tech jobs,NYC,Bitcoin,Musk, Jamie Dimon, AR/VR
1:55:23 Thanks for having a another amazing guest on your show!Ben is great on”The New Ideal Live”,along with all sorts of other great ARI fellows. Great show
1:55:36 See pinned comment for timestamps of additional questions

2:02:17 Outro








#philosophy #stoicism #Morality ​ ​#Objectivism​ #AynRand #politics

[YaronBrook]

Outline:
00:55 Ben Bayer
02:10 Altruism and religious mindset in the secular world?
11:20 Why does altruism require religion?
14:46 What has made altruism so sticky/influential?
19:08 Nietzsche and Spinoza alternatives to altruism
21:45 How does Kant secularize altruism?
25:05 Modern secular movements inspired by religion
33:55 What is wokism and how is it religious?
36:35 How is altruism shaping the woke phenomenon?
43:20 Effective Altruism

Live Questions:
54:19 Do you think the non-Abramic religions are as altruistic? Buddhism and Hinduism, for example, seem to be very anti-individual and irrational in their own ways, but are they also altruistic?
57:59 What is the connection between altruism and dependence and/or egoism and independence?
58:59 Should “It’s a Wondeful Life” be rebooted as an egoistic character study? What if George Bailey followed his dreams and embraced rational self interest? The story wouldn’t even need an angelic intervention.
1:04:55 An outstanding discussion! Thanks!
1:04:58 Do you think sociopaths and predatory people are reacting against altruism? Or did they skip over altruism all together and come to the conclusion that being exploitative and manipulative were the way to go through life?
1:08:56 I know saying "the common good" is referencing a collective, but I think saying "the greater good" is even worse. There are values that are commonly good for all individuals, but nothing greater than the individual.
1:09:59 You said RFK jr is just a conspiracy theorist regarding CIA. But he has first-hand experience that you ignored. He saw as a little kid CIA directors pressuring his uncle JFK to conform to their agenda before he was killed.
1:12:43 Is there any benefit to the eastern notions of "letting go" or "being unattached" (or even meditation to an extent) to help manage one's emotions - assuming one understands what one's values are and live egoistically?
1:16:15 Do effective altruists believe that their efforts to earn money in the first place (prior to giving it away) is useless, or even harmful?
1:18:32 Why won't scientists debate RFK jr? cowardice?
1:20:42 Is skepticism a secular form of mysticism? Or does it belong in its own category? Aren't mystics and skeptics equally likely to be altruists? They seem like two sides of the same coin.
1:23:47 Is Islam more altruistic than Christianity and Judaism? This is why the Muslim world has rejected the enlightenment more than Europe?
1:34:07 Have you read philosopher Helvetius who wrote about Egoism? Also, Pelagius, a heretic Christian who put free will and rational deeds above Grace?
1:39:58 How much would it cost to get Ben to review “The Good Place”? Or is Yaron the only one who does that?
1:41:22 Is the spirit of growth and progress greater than the force of altruism in peoples minds? I believe it is.
1:43:22 Who will the next Yaron Brook be? Anyone promising you're currently training at the OAC?
1:43:46 Ben, are you seeing students and faculty becoming more aware of Ayn Rand's ideas and taking her more seriously as a thinker than when you were last on Yaron's podcast?
1:47:25 Altruism and The Malevolent Universe Premise?
1:50:26 TOSCON has started this week and OCON is coming in July. Thoughts on them and to any of events later this year and in 2024? Events Ben will be at?
1:51:56 What does Ben think of the criticism of Rand’s presentation of Toohey that he’s too conscious of and purposive about his own evil?
1:52:46 Is RFK jr a tribal lonewolf? He went from left-wing environmentalist to right-wing anti-vaxer in a decade.
1:53:29 Yaron, a follow-up from previous question - based on Ben's answer, would a good way to summarize a proper view be: be rational and keep the full context (eg Ben's idea of don't sweat the small stuff)
1:54:02 Tips for burnout parents of 1 year old?How to regain focus/motivation? Prediction on US inflation, rates, tech jobs, NYC, Bitcoin, Musk, Jamie Dimon, AR/VR
1:55:23 Thanks for having a another amazing guest on your show!Ben is great on”The New Ideal Live”, along with all sorts of other great ARI fellows. Great show
1:55:36 Why is the Objectivists movement very white?
1:58:04 Positive news, Marc Andreessan on Lex.
1:59:42 Many weird modern ideas come from superstitions like Hermeticism and the God-mind monism of that system. What to make of claim that universe is god?

2:02:17 Outro

[TeaParty]

Ben says that Rand's unusual honesty explains why she is the only [consistent] opponent of altruism in millenia. It's also the difficulty, for conventional people, of breaking the bad habit of accepting altruism. It requires the mental effort of focusing on the topic and remaining focused on it. It's easier to maintain the bad habit of thinking that altruism is good.

[TeaParty]

Common good is one of those ideas (terms?) w/an individualist (distributive to each person)) and collectivist (mystical transcending individuals) meaning. This ambiguity rationalizes interpreting the US Constitutions "general welfare" as the power to sacrifice individual rights.

[TeaParty]

Kants defense of sacrifice is also a mystical sense of duty. I dont know why he wanted a "rational" defense also.

[TeaParty]

N. Branden had relaxation audio cassettes. Is that meditation or mindfulness? The USAF trains pilots to relax when their plane spins out of control.

[frederickmfarias]

Augustine rationalized religious police and conformity-to any “visionary” who imagines and/or calls himself “god”. See the: The Edict of Thessalonica.
Thank you. Ben Bayer Yaron Brook
Spinoza defended personal happiness as part of the universe.
“Will to power” “strength“ was Schopenhauer’s view
Characters religious in Dostoyevsky stories suggest commune church-government…

[TeaParty]

Altruism is the morality of the unfocused mind.

[frankrockefeller]

J.D. Unwin -'We ourselves live in a rationalistic age; that is as far as the vast majority of us have developed our powers; and we can no more predict or understand the nature of a higher culture that the Veddahs can understand our culture. Since we are quite unable to imagine, it is therefore useless to consider, what the culture of such a society would be, say, in twenty generations, but a continual rise in the cultural scale, about every three generations, seems certain. The cultural tradition would be continually refined and augmented; language and mode of expression would ever become more subtle, elegant and precise. The society would begin to appreciate shades of emotion and judgment that are lost to us, and its vision would broaden, its thought deepen, beyond our mental powers. It would be able to grasp, with increasing facility, the meaning of those broad truths of which we only catch an occasional glimpse; and we can dimly imagine the difference between their mental processes and ours when we reflect that the thoughts and expressions of the members of such a society would be as comprehensible to us as Shakespeare's sonnets are to a cannibal.' ('Hopousia' P.112-113)

[TeaParty]

A very quick and dirty scanning of links to "Spinoza altruism" shows a scholarly consensus that Spinoza advocated an intellectually chaotic (my word) combination of ethical egoism and altruism.

[TeaParty]

If Christian sacrifice is basically to God, why does Jesus basically require sacrifice to people? Or does he?