How accurate should an adaptation look?

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solid agree here, race swapping a character only works if there is an in universe justification for why this would be the case, especially in a medieval tech era fantasy where their wont be a lot of easing mixing between peoples. Saan is a pirate based around lys and the stepstones so just by merit of proximity he can have the dark skin of a summer islander, same with Xaro.
Also greatly agree with your comments about maintaining accuracy particularly in regards to historic representations

ShadeStormXD
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Im from the future they spinned it in a way that fits.

samuelmcewen
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To accept that Steve Toussaint is indeed Corlys Velaryon requires us to forget everything we know about the Targaryens, the Velaryons, Westeros, and the Valyrians.

The Targaryens were very selective with who they intermarried with, favoring to marry within the family in order to keep their Valyrian traits. While there were exceptions to this, most notably the Hightowers, the Harroways, Tyanna of the Tower, the Costaynes, the Westerlings, the Arryns, the Rogares of Lys, the Martells, the Penroses, the Daynes, and the Blackwoods, they most of the time wouldn’t marry non-Valyrians.

Enter the Velaryons, who, along with the Targaryens and the Celtigars, were the only 3 Valyrian noble houses to survive the Doom of Valyria. Now, because they possessed the typical Valyrian traits, the Targaryens were willing to intermarry with them fairly often, two Velaryons were wed to the Targaryen kings. Were the Velaryons to be black, I couldn’t imagine the Targaryens willing to do so, because while it might be true they’d married non-Valyrian families, none of them were that dark of skin.

We should also look at Westeros as a society. Westeros is heavily inspired by the Medieval British Isles, with the political structure of the Seven Kingdoms somewhat mirroring that of the Holy Roman Empire. Medieval Britain, as with the rest of Europe and most of the world at the time, was decidedly non-diverse. People didn’t typically leave their homelands to live elsewhere. Now this isn’t to say there were no people of color in Europe at the time, but they were a very small minority in coastal cities who were there for trade. Most English peasants at the time would never see someone from France during their lifetime, let alone someone from Africa or Asia. It was entirely plausible to live your entire life without ever leaving your village. Medieval Europeans knew decidedly very little about the lands to the south and east of them. When Napoleon brought back to France Armenian mamluk Roustam Raza from the French campaign in Egypt and Syria during the War of the Second Coalition, he was considered very exotic as many of the nobles had never seen someone like him before. Medieval society, unfortunately, was also highly prejudiced. Minorities like Jews and Romani were frequent targets of discrimination and violence. Similarly Muslims and Mongols were similarly despised and viewed as threats.

Now that we’ve addressed actual history, let’s talk about Westeros. Westeros is also a very prejudiced society. Andals in the South (Westerlands, Vale of Arryn, Reach, Stormlands, Riverlands, and Crownlands) view those of First Man blood (Northmen, Ironborn, Crannogmen, Skagosi, Northern Mountain Clans, Hill Tribes, Sistermen, and Free Folk) as savages and heathens. The Three Sisters, despite having converted to the Faith of the Seven, is still considered by septons a den of sin. One thing that unites the peoples south of the Wall, though, is their hatred of the Free Folk, better known as wildlings. Prior to the Battle of the Bastards, Jon Snow was unable to convince many Northern lords to join his fight to reclaim Winterfell not only because of fear of the Boltons, but also because they didn’t want to fight alongside wildlings. Also, during Daenerys Targaryen’s war for Westeros, Cersei I Lannister was able to keep many nobles from declaring for Daenerys by appealing to their xenophobia. The (false) idea of a foreigner queen invading their homeland

with an army of savages at her back seemed to work fairly well. Plain and simple, a black noble would receive little to no respect in Westeros and would be hard-pressed to find any house willing to intermarry with his.

Finally, let’s address the Valyrians and the Freehold. As stated above, the Valyrians are famous for their violet eyes, platinum hair, and pale skin. With all that in mind, let me ask: does this guy Steve Toussaint look Valyrian to you?

Didn’t think so. Anyways, to accept that this guy is indeed Valyrian is to forget what Valyrians are, no wig’ll change that.

Now, the Freehold is where the waters muddy a bit. The Valyrian Freehold was a massive empire that ruled most of Essos for thousands of years. Like the name suggests, the Freehold was founded by the Valyrians after they tamed dragons and dethroned the Old Empire of Ghis. While there were most definitely people of color in the Freehold due to its immense size, it would be a mistake to assume that they were equals to the Valyrians. While Valyrian colonists who founded the Free Cities (Braavos, Volantis, Lys, Myr, Pentos, Norvos, Qohor, Tyrosh, and Lorath) intermarried with other peoples, the Valyrian nobility didn’t as they were obsessed with blood purity and maintaining Valyrian traits, including the ability to tame dragons. And while the Velaryons were never dragonriders, they are still nobility of Valyrian blood as old as the Targaryens and this practice of inbreeding would no doubt have trickled down to the Valyrian common folk.

So how do you explain it? You can’t. Where do those Valyrian features go? Into a wig. Why can’t they be white like the Targaryens as in canon? Because the writers stopped caring about being accurate long ago. Is it forced diversity? Yes. Is HBO playing the diversity card too much? Also yes.

Once more, I’m all for diversity in film and television, but not at the expense of the world’s lore. If they wanted to create a lead character of color, why not create a new character like they did with Talisa Maegyr? To just make a white character black and call it a day seems cheap to me, looking at you, Disney. They also completely forgot about Nettles, who would’ve been a great addition to the show. Diversifying movies and tv is a noble goal, but it has to be done where it makes sense. If it’s in a modern-day diverse country like the United States or Canada where practically everyone’s an immigrant, it doesn’t matter what color the characters are. But if it’s something like Medieval Europe, Ancient China, or pre-Colonial Africa, the cast should represent that particular look. I also might not’ve minded as much if white actors on The Simpsons weren’t now forbidden from voicing non-white cartoon characters.

nasiransari
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The issue with black Hermoine is its cheap, and don't get me wrong I love the idea of black Hermoine. Where she experiences rejection and slight discriminations due to racism in Britain, ultimately making her feel that she never belongs. Though then she learns about the world of magic, a place where there is no racism, a place she can finally truly feel accepted. Then only when arriving does she experience the discrimination of blood purity and etc. I think that makes for a rather impactful story, and wherever you go with it is going to turn out well.
The issue is, that doesn't happen. We don't read about Hermoines struggle of never being accepted anywhere on account of her race and blood. The story would be better for it, though we sadly don't see it in the books. So if there is a revision of the movies, I want Hermoine to be black, and I want them to show the struggles that come with it. I don't like changing her race ex post facto without anything else, because it cheapens her character and struggle.

Also I have no issue changing the race of anyone in history and stories if race doesn't matter. Like Macbeth, Denzel is now my favorite Macbeth. If they're the best actor for the role, like Dinklage, then give them the part. Though if you have a white dude playing MLK, or a black dude playing LBJ, that ain't right as race is critically important to their story.

reesehendricksen
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I think changing the race if almost any other character in Asoiaf makes sense but not the Varyons who are so heavily intermarried with the Targaryens precisely for their Valyrian blood and especially not the people who are ancestors to Rhaenyra’s possible bastards. Rhaenys having black hair is also important to the plot and I hate that they made her just blonde. The actor for Corlys actually looks like exactly what I would imagine the Sea Snake would look like so that’s not a reflection on his talents at all.

angryowl
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Legit just found ur channel, love the quality of vids, bring on more GoT love it

zackhershman
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I honestly dont really have a problem with them changing someone's ethnicity until it feels insulting. A good example is Triss Marigold. Like... wtf?

ottovonbismarck
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I really only think it's wrong to alter a character's appearance for no reason in a direct adaptation or a realistic historical drama. If it has the tone of a movie like Lincoln it should be kept as accurate as possible. On the other hand if it has the tone of something like Abraham Lincoln the vampire hunter or Fate Stay Night who cares. Works like that are not directly adapting anything or trying to seriously portray historical events.
When it comes to fiction in generally I think the changing of character's appearance is more a symptom of the lack of respect and understanding of the source material. The entire backbone and foundation of any adaptation is the source material changing anything without a good reason is on some level disrespectful to the source material and all the fans. It wasn't okay 50 years ago when they were making everyone white it's not okay. Now nobody would accept a live action version of Dragon Ball Z we're Goku's hair turn to Green instead of yellow it would be pointless change that everyone would agree it was wrong. But for some reason there's a debate when Hollywood does it.

carlosanthony
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I thought keeping the bloodline pure was something only dragon riding family of valyrian did. But the velaryon were not one of 40 dragon riding families?

hutaocleookitavoidshiki
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Also you are completely right about Salador but the problem is that he already has a long established lineage and backstory to his house, and in that lineage it explains how his great grandfather stole a fleet from Volantis (where people look targaryen) and became a pirate

billychops
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I hate how in the lore and the trailer so far we only see two houses from valeria. What happen to the other houses that came with Aegon's father?

ozrub
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Just stick to the authors story. Summer Islanders on the main continent of Westeros would most likely be in the souther part of the continent (Arbor, DORNE or the southern areas of the reach like Oldrown. And also, the albinism that causes blonde hair also causes pale skin so Toussaint’s silver hair and her black skin make ZERO sense.

xandermarley
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*They call attention to this problem by calling House not-Velaryon "pure blooded Valyrians" multiple times in the show. It's a disgusting change made for all the wrong reasons, and I'm fully against it. George okaying it made me lose the scrap of respect I still had for him too. If an author doesn't give a shit about his own vision, then why should I?*

honkeykong
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Yep I can also see why Tywin want to drown him

faisalkamal
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Having seen the series, I actually like the Velaryon cast a lot, with Corlys being amazing on the role and one of my faves. Does it make some plotholes? Hell yes, that being said the holes are because we don't have darker Targaryens, not the fact that Velaryons are black, because we do not know were the hell were before westeros, Valyria was a huge empire and is heavily hinted that the colouring is man-made and also mostly on dragonlords and Velaryons are not.

In any case, I would love to see a Yi-Ti, Summer Islands or Rhoynar centric series, they're way more interesting than Targaryens and it opens the door for A LOT more representation.

CompanyOfTheCat
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Its been a few months since house of the dragon dropped and i think im completely fine with the race swap because they used it in a really interesting way for the story line. The illegitimacy of Rhaenyra's kids is blatant and obvious in this story which further adds to the drama, unlike the books where they had brown hair, and ignorance could be feigned. Vaemond's speech is brilliant because HE'S LITERALLY RIGHT, AND YET VR ROOTING FOR TEAM BLACK. The showrunners use the race swap to their advantage in story structure, so now the race swap has an actual meaning to it, and isnt just a token gesture. The black race of house velaruon can be easily justified by having south islander ancestors as they are sailors, and even have different burial customs that the other valyrians (sea burials) which means that they have adapted the customs of different cultures they have inherited from over time. They still have the iconic valyrian hair which maintains continuity, and they left valyria before the targaryens. I think it dosent feel absurd in the show, because not once did the show make me feel like the velaryons were out of place among the lords. Infact the velaryons had the most rizzz among the lords, shown during episode 5 at the wedding.

dhruv
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i think the race of the velaryons is the least important thing to critique HOTD abt and if george doesn’t have a problem then no one else should

vetabeta
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This is overall a pretty good video and I've already subscribed thanks to your amazing consistency in quality in your other videos. However I do have some small issues that add up and makes it hard for me to buy all of your arguments:
1. Sean Bean and Charles Dance are amazing actors, but they look absolutely nothing like Eddard Stark and Tywin Lannister in the books. The former has a long face with dark brown hair, the latter is bald with blonde sideburns.
2. Yes, the Norvosi priests have beards, but they are also the only ones permitted to have beards in Norvos. Areo is never described as bearded in the text, so the visual depictions of him were basically invalidated when The World of Ice and Fire came out with a further explanation on how the Bearded Priests work.
3. It's called "The SUMMER Isles"
4. You often times use the books as a justification to why the Velaryons can't be black....but in the books, Aerys is Aemons nephew and the Boltons only stopped flaying their enemies when Ned Starks told them to. Case and point, it's two different continuities and there isn't any information suggesting that the Velaryons married into the Targaryens to the same extent in the show's universe.
5. If we are going to use the books as justification, you can just as easily argue the opposite: Yes, the Valyrians where interested in keeping the bloodlines pure, but only within the positions of power. They practiced Prima Noctra (even later in Westeros), and it's described many times how the bulk of Pentoshi are a mix of Valyrian and Andal, and that many Lyseni are descendants of Valyrians mixed with the natives. Now is it fair to use the books to prove a thing that the books directly disprove? Of course not! But the thing about adaptating a complex story and world is that it serves more as a toolbox for writers to pick what they think sounds interesting and put it to use.
6. You also seem to have the mentality that movies and shows have to be loyal to their sourcematerials, otherwise they're bad by default, and I cannot stress enough how many classics we have to discard if that were the case. Forrest Gump, Who Framed Roger Rabbit, Frankenstein, Bambi, I could go on.

EDIT: Also Agent J is actually a race-swapped character, as he was blonde in the comics.

YggdrasilAudio
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I mean if I was paid 22 million dollars to play Superman even though I’m not Anglo Saxon Fuck people’s opinions I’m taking my check home and would let the Peasants rage.

dimitrescucrncevic
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7:30 "Imagine if we had a show about the Founding Fathers and casted them all as minorities"
My man, I agree with most of the video, but Hamilton is fucking good

annan-