What If the Dutch United Germany?

#possiblehistory #ph #alternatehistory #alternatehistoryofeurope #germany #germanunification
Step into the realm of alternate history with our latest video: 'What if the Dutch United Germany?' Join us on a captivating journey as we explore an intriguing scenario where the Netherlands played a pivotal role in shaping the destiny of Germany. Imagine a world where historical events took a different course, leading to a united Germany under Dutch influence. In this 'What if' exploration, we delve into the possibilities, challenges, and consequences of this altered historical narrative. From political alliances to cultural exchanges, we'll unravel the intricate threads that could have woven a new tapestry of European history. Experience the potential impacts on the balance of power, economic development, and international relations in a Europe where the Dutch united Germany. Don't miss this unique perspective on a fascinating 'What if' scenario. Like, comment, and subscribe for more thought-provoking explorations of alternate history and its impact on our world.

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[embermovies]

As a German living close to the Dutch border I can get behind the second scenario. I still see the Dutch as our brothers and wish we had even closer ties to them than we have currently.

[diesesphil]

Some might say Northern Germans are culturally closer to the Dutch than Southern Germans and Dutch even used to be considered a german dialect a few hundred years ago

[AmirSatt]

To be honest for most of history of low countries they were part of HRE, not too dissimilar to other german states. So this could absolutely happen much earlier

[PossessedPotatoBird]

I do think the Netherlands in this timeline would get something in Africa, even if it’s not South Africa. They are simply too powerful to ignore, especially colonially with the Dutch East Indies

[Milorax]

As an German i lover our Brothers to the west grew up close to the Border and spend a lot of time in the Netherlands. Youll never have more fun as with them and Brits. They are kind and very welcoming and i hope we keep growing together.

[Swagman]

honestly russia would probably join the low germans in the scenario, competing balkan ambitions, austro-turkish relations etc.

[es]

Regarding the alliance between Austria, France and Russia and peace at 11:30: I can't believe the Austrians ever signing up to such a miserable deal, considering, that they literally handed some of the most valuable land (the Rhineland, all of Belgium and the southern Netherlands), including like 10 million Germans, to France, moved the Russian border with Germany like 500 km westwards, while making themselves a sitting duck, wedged between them completely defencelessly. Honestly, if France and Russia wanted to, they could just march across the North German plain, take control of Westphalia, Hanover, Silesia, Brandenburg and Saxony with basically no resistence. And when considering, that basically all coal and iron ore mines and most industrial capacity of this new Austrian state lie right across the border (Upper Silesia, Ruhr Area), and most of the major cities and agglomerations lie just a few hundred kilometers away (Frankfurt: ~20 km, Stuttgart & Breslau: 80 km, Berlin: ~100 km, Dresden & Hamburg: ~200 km, Hanover and Munich: ~250 km, Vienna: ~300 km) they would be militarily incapacitated before they could react. Considering also, that both France and Russia have a vested interest in the destruction of your state (France for more influence in Germany and full hegemony over Italy, Russia for more influence in the Balkans) and your state is in of itself mostly made up by non-German elements, ripe to be exploited by Russian or French influence by them or their puppets (for example in Venetia, Galicia, Transylvania, Bosnia etc.) to make them break away and join the Russian or French sphere. Given that it is highly unlikely, that the supernational state of the Austrian Empire, which had been in decline basically from its inception, even before the defeat in 1866, is going to survive the age of nationalism fully intact, they would probably lose half of their empire just via independence movements and have the rest of it invaded by France and Russia within a sphere of weeks. Through this peace thusly, they did nothing else, than to massively strengthen their greatest geopolitical enemies, while completely disarming any potential Central European counterweight against the aggressive expansion from East and West. They basically created for themselves a situation not unlike the old Middle Francian state in the 9th century, which was similarly ethnically and geographically divided and overextended, wedged between the way more compact, centralized and capable neighbors and just like this state, it's basically doomed to fall victim to them sooner or later.

[carlos]

This video was great, I enjoyed how you could go more in detail despite your hesitations. I think it's really fun to go wild with an idea instead of accepting the truth that "we can't know for sure".
It makes for some really cool stories and maps that are oddly beautiful to look at.
I think I would enjoy it even more if you'd go all in and theorise about minor nations' allegiances in the war. That way there are no "blank spaces" on the map, and it gives a sense of completeness.
For example, I'd imagine the Balkans dynamic being similar yet different, with Bulgaria and the Ottomans fighting whatever the Russians' side is, against Serbia, Greece and Romania.

[FCGroningen]

As a Dutch person myself I can't see this scenario work at all. The Dutch generally managed to flourish because they stayed out of continental wars after William the 3rd died. The other North German states prefered to unite with Prussia despite it's warlike posture because of their unified culture. Austrian and Dutch cultures are both related to the overall German cultures but they'd definately prefered Prussia. The Dutch never wanted to risk continental conquests as their army would never be able to stand up to major European countries in an offensive setting. The British did not want any changes to the status quo and the Dutch would have lost their protection while the French would immediately make the Netherlands their primary target.

A more likely but still very improbable scenario would have required the Dutch to become a united people before protestantism. The current Netherlands like it's German counterpart was a mix of smaller states and cities and the only thing that united it would have been a massive much stronger enemy that united them all. Only a united Netherlands in say around the year 1200 would have been able to become a major player within the HRE in a similar way that eventually Saxony, Bavaria and Brandenburg would have been able to become enough of a serious force to later become and elector and perhaps emperor of the HRE.

[kopf]

Fr the best history channel out there. Its crazy how much you can learn by locking at history that could have toke place

[danielsantiagourtado]

You do the craziest video ideas so well bro!

Idea: what if charlotte of wales survives and rules britain with leopold?

[_au]

My instant guess before even watching the video was that German would have gradually split into two separate languages (akin to High and Low German today, but with stronger differences).

[my_name_is_wallet]

As a German who loves the Dutch, I see this as a absolute win. 🇩🇪🧡🇳🇱

[BMTEnjoyer]

That would be cursed
(Omg I started a comment war)

[antred]

As a German, I think I would like this a lot. We'd have good public transportation and bike infrastructure now. 🤩

[small_demon]

I generally think that Russia would side with Prussia since there were still alot of slavs in the Austrian Empire

[yerdearbobglove]

Dude this is crazy and amazing! Keep up that great work!

[ZarkinDrife]

A timeline where the Netherlands never reclaimed land from the ocean but rather the land from the land.

[dougfowler]

This was really great! It reminds me of the best alternate history timelines on that website, which start out with something little and develop a totally different world yet seems so plausible when looked at from Viewpoint of that world. This seemed really possible and also was very well done and intricate.

[BelugaTheHutt]

I think you'd have a better chance achieving a realistic Dutch-German unification scenario if you start it with an early decisive Protestant victory in the 30 Years War, leading to a more sustained involvement of neighboring Protestant powers with HRE internal politics. There's obviously a number of other factors which would have to somehow go right for this, but that strikes me as a promising starting point for the concept.

My idea would be to start with a Protestant victory ideally in the 1620s in the 30 Years War, ideally before the Swedish Intervention, followed by an Ottoman victory in a Seige of Vienna in 1683 - assuming that they still invade on a similar timeline, for some reason, 60 years after the butterflies have started taking effect. This removes the largest Catholic power center within the HRE, shifting the balance of power even further towards Protestant powers, and (hopefully) reducing Dutch concerns about their involvement with the HRE leaving them more influenced in return by larger Catholic powers.

This would be a slightly less Dutch-centric scenario, since there's be a much larger portion of Germany uniting with the Netherlands and what is now Belgium, but I think that it sets up a Holy Roman Empire with borders and economic linkages which could shift more smoothly into a united Germany, again assuming that an era of nationalism still ends up rising in the world, similarly to our own timeline.

Would it? Possibly not. Without the devastation of a long 30 Years War wrecking Germany and killing a third of the population, you might not have the same impetus to move towards the "cabinet wars" approach to enacting foreign policy. This kind of removes the "Courtly Quadrile" mechanic of how great power politics functioned in Europe from 1648 to 1789 or so. I have no idea if the borders or national aims would've looked remotely similar in this alternate 1789.

Yes, the terrible harvest of 1788 would still occur, since that was due to climactic events as well as the increasing spread of agricultural diseases since the 1760s. However, it was massively exacerbated by the French debt crisis which had in large part from their ambitious foreign policy, military misadventures, and funding of temporary war allies. Though it must be said that the extremely unequal structure of the French state was an equal partner with their foreign policy expenditures. I'd be surprised if the Ancien Regime would've been substantially less corrupt and greedy in this scenario, but the foreign policy could've potentially been much less ruinous. The revolution was a critical stage in the development of nationalist philosophy, and it might not have even gotten off the ground, if not for the fragile state of the French economy when several crises struck at once.

What I'm saying is that you'd need to hope for some specific results from a few different questions which realistically would not have such obvious answers, WELL after the initial point of divergence in the 1620s. It's not the most straightforward and clinically-realistic depiction of an alternative history, assuming that the objective of alternative history is to depict a likely flow of history in accordance with the highest probability. But it's at least a plausible-enough scenario if you were to use it as a background for a story where the alternate history is not the main focus of the narrative.