Core Game Loops

I talk about the core game loop, both what it is and why you want to define it for your game.

Video I reference:

[Pedone_Rosso]

Once upon a time I used to keep a sports-game installed at all times.

I started a "career mode" and then I used it as a sort of "RPG substitute for the busy man".
In the way I played, the "core game loop" was based on one or two games at a time (½ an hour),
in order to perceptibly improve my created player/team and progress the season/career.
Basically I was getting to experience a game-by-game quasi-RPG-progression via ½ an hour long playing sessions,
without having to keep updated with any story arch or other long term complex element beside my "build".
Perfect for me back then, when, because of work and life,
I often had weeks/months with no time or energy for longer playing sessions:
I enjoyed the quick RPG-like satisfaction, AND the pleasant game-play, carefree.

In the last 10 years or so, though, this kind of thing has become impossible.
Now those same games look VERY similar to back then at face value (...they get updated and re-sold every year),
but they actually have a new "core game loop".
The basic game-play is almost the same in single player,
but the progression in "career mode" is reduced to an annoyingly slow crawl,
when the only way to bring it back to the original pace and satisfaction level is to spend money in microtransactions,
and/or to play online multiplayer games (which are competitive and based on pay-to-win mechanics, i.e. more microtransactions).
Basically microtransactions have become an unavoidable part of the loop,
if you still want that quick RPG-like satisfaction.

I had to stop playing sports-games because of that.
But for sure I got to experience 1st hand how subtly the "core game loop" can be manipulated
while resulting in huge changes to how the same content is transmitted to the player,
depending on the publisher/developer's intents.

Thanks for your videos!

[vos]

Game loop of a sandbox:

1. Do something
2. Observe consequences

[nw]

This is SUPER helpful. I’d been idly considering an idea for a game, but it was vague and I would probably never make it… This video prompted me to think through the game loop, and I realized there was something there I’m really excited about. In a few minutes the whole thing went from a bunch of hand-waving to something clear, coherent, and actionable. I’m still not sure that I’ll make the game (my time is finite) but now I’m MUCH MUCH more likely to. Thank you!

[JasonWelch]

I just spent probably 30 minutes trying to write a reply in an attempt to explain where my struggles have been, but in the process, I think I answered myself. I further realize now that writing for someone else to understand something, at least for me, is a massively effective way to clear up my thoughts and better understand what it is I'm really trying to get at. I've used this technique for decades when writing code: rubber ducking. So yeah, thanks for the video and for unknowingly being a rubber duck for me.

[jones]

Tim: Making a complex core game loop means a lot of extra work and a lot of extra cost.

Also Tim: I won’t make a game any other way.

This is why I love Tim Cain games.

[proydoha]

Hi Tim. It would be interesting to hear you talking about minigames inside games.

The most common ones are skill minigames: lockpicking and hacking. Sometimes other skills get their own too, like speech or pickpocketing. And sometimes minigame is an in-universe tabletop game.

My experience with them is almost always: at the start of a game I love them, by the end of a game I hate them because its been hundreds of locks and terminals.

The solution seems to be to allow bypassing minigames with high enough skill levels. But then it turns into a situation where player plays a game with an objective to not play a game. Which is weird.

[jamesbest]

This is the best advice and I try to tell other people who want to get into game development the same thing. When someone comes at me telling me the whole back story of this game and just say, "it's a RPG". The core game loop is everything, the game idea should start with the core game loop and then the theme is built around that. I'd rather see some basic pseudo code for core game loop logic than hear anything about the theme or setting.

[sperdper]

I think one of the most pure core game loops/progression loops to exist comes from the Diablo series. You kill monsters to get loot and experience, which in turn lets you kill more and stronger monsters, which yields more and stronger loot. That's the whole entire game, and it's so simple and pure and perfect. Obviously, something like that won't work for every game, but man. Blizzard really nailed it with that one.

[KryyssTV]

Something worth mentioning here is that you will find many veteran developers over the years have said you need to grab your player's attention and get them invested within the first X minutes. A key factor there is getting the player through that core game loop from start to end during that time so that the player understands what they'll be doing for the rest of the game.

But when Tim was making activey games the common advice was that players will form an opinion of your game within the first hour, but over the years people are getting more impatient and are quicker to form opinions so when you look at advice and observations on player behviour, like GDC talks and so forth, over the last 20 or so you'll see them saying you need to get your core gameplay withn the first 1hr, to 30min, to 20mins and now we're seeing it approaching 10 mins or less.

It's a sad fact that mobile games are so popular because they have such simple gameplay loops but that is the society we have nowadays with limited attention spans and an expectation of instant gratification. The upside though is that if you have a recognised IP and an existing playerbase then they will tolerate a longer gameplay loop because they were invested before they started playing.

[thomasanderson]

This is one of the reasons MMORPG's are suffering. You saw bots in the 2000's and heard stories of people buying gold, but they were all readily dealt with (and harshly). The first time I witnessed a massive line of bots with gibberish names funneling in and out an instance in Classic WoW, I just froze in amazement and sadness. They fully let themselves go and cheating was the norm. Everyone around you buys gold now. I'll never forget it. My time spent dutifully trading, crafting, gathering, and traveling actually meant nothing. Every single core gameplay loop we had in the past was allowed to be horrifically violated. Why am I paying a company to have my time stomped on and degraded? How can you not think about how demoralizing that is? Well, many people do every single day and say no. I'm not playing MMORPGs anymore.

[UlissesSampaio]

There are also games (mostly AAA sand-box types such as Bethesda games) with many game-loops: exploration, crafting, combat, questing, etc. The nice thing about those is you can swap games within a game, with all games seamlessly touching each other, and achieve a result that is more than the sum of its parts. I often see people saying "this game doesn't have the best combat ever but those who want combat should go play this dedicated FPS-shooter-soulslike instead". Imho, they are missing that the (imperfect) combat is one dimension that combines as part of a bigger experience.

[lorenzowang]

Publisher POV here: When working with teams to identity their core game loop, rather than just the most frequent player behavior, I like to define it as the most frequent actions needed to realize their in-game aspiration.

Realizing the aspiration = the loop, in that it concludes the actions with feedback and sets up new aspirations for you to re-engage with the loop. Aspirations are different for every game, whether it's progressing a story, leveling a character, collecting cards, unlocking achievements, mastering a skill, etc.

So the first step in anchoring a good core game loop is identifying what fantasy aka aspiration the game is selling. Then, the in-game actions the players take should move them towards that aspiration, ideally in a measurable way (points, currency, wins, levels, new areas, unlocks, etc.) and as the bar for success gets raised, they'll re-embark on that loop.

[gameboardgames]

So glad I joined this channel, lots of wisdom from this game-grandmaster !

[adammoynihan]

This is especially a problem in MMO's where you could play 20 hours and still not interact with most of the core game loop because you haven't unlocked it yet.

[Homicidal_Pacifist]

I appreciate you taking the time to speak about the game industry! I would love to hear your thoughts on how devs create items for games, especially the progression for balancing them as the player levels up.

[Anubis]

I think it's perfectly okay to have multiple game loops in complex games, and that might make it easier to plan and prioritize development.

In an RPG, the players who focus on crafting and economy will have a totally different loop than players who enjoy progressing through dialog, who will have a totally different loop than the ones who just want to jump in and kill things.

Even in, say, a multiplayer shooter, you can break up the loop based on class or build, as long as you have people in place to keep those loops in line with the project's pillars and goals, and of course work with each other.

It's difficult, but I think it's better than trying to fit everything different players might enjoy doing into the same loop.

[NicoGonzalezEstevez]

Love this one, really helped me understand how to face the fundamental aspects of my games, it's always a pleasure to watch your videos.

My humble feedback: It would have helped to have some examples of games, eg: when you mention fantasy games, or games with core game loops revolving around naratives, or exploring. I think it would make it easier to understand if we can instantly relate it to a real example of a game we've played. (at least for people like me who still have a lot to learn)

[DemienC.]

Would be fantastic to expand this topic in future.
Examples, "hiding" game loops to not make them obvious/predictable (aka boring), "marriage" of main game loop with secondary loops etc.

[sniperx]

Finally, yes. I've seen so many videos of people talking about something you've said breaking down your videos, and hadnt had a chance to subscribe yet. You're a legend.

[Gumpy]

I remember watching a youtube critique of Skyrim (largely negative) and one of the dude's criticisms was "Skyrim feels like it was designed by people who love the term "gameplay loop" (again, this was presented as a negative aspect). I always thought that was a weird criticism. all games have a core gameplay loop. and Skyrim does have a pretty tight core gameplay loop that feeds into itself well, at least for me.