The Problem with Queer-Baiting in BL

As always, be respectful! ♡

Here's some related content -
The Evolution of Queer-Baiting with Rowan Ellis:
Queer-Baiting & Gatekeeping with withcindy:
Queer-Baiting in Stranger Things with Obviously Queer:

Here's the article mentioned -

Here's the statistics presented -

✧ Join the Discord ✧

✧ Subscribe to the podcast ✧

✧ Support my future uploads ✧

⇊ Follow me for more ramblings ⇊
Twitter: @moonconsort
Instagram: @moonconsort

[DumiNihi]

With what happened to kit conner ppl need to learn an actor's sexulity isn't their business

[darrenhales]

There is so much toxic fan service and fans out there. As a gay man, I love to see these stories brought to life. And I completely agree with everything you said. Personally, I think my biggest problem with this industry are actors who audition for and take on gay roles knowing they are not at least allies.

There are a few BL actors in the last few years who have been caught on camera saying horrible things about us or the industry. They are totally free to have any opinion they choose to have about things and people around them. However, do not then turn around and partake in an industry that provides stories about gay people. I am much more impressed with actors like Max and Tul who have always been allies of the LGBTQ+ community. Sure, it would be amazing if they were gay. But even if they are not, at least they are supportive and have never said anything negative about our community. This is the right way to take on roles like these and just perform them to the best of their abilities.

Thanks for your great video!

[miwami.]

It's crazy to me how obsessed and invested some fans are in two people's relationship to the point that they call it queerbaiting when sometimes (or even MOST of the time) it's just two dudes who are genuinely good friends. The term has been thrown around so much to the point that it pisses me off sometimes. I hope these people know it's not really the right thing to be so obsessed with the sexual orientation of two random people. But I get why people can get so invested honestly

And for fanservice, It's not always an issue, as it is honestly just a part of the system and how these actors work to gain their money, it's not something these actors get to choose if they WANT to do or not. It is a little infuriating and even funny how crazy it can be, but at the end of the day, It's just capitalism getting the best of everyone.

[civivva]

I just watch the drama. EVERYTHING ELSE IS A PERFORMANCE. 

To clarify, I expect actors to act gay in the BL series. Fan meets, photoshoots for magazines, interviews, BL series extra videos, tiktoks where THE ACTORS are being all cute and like a couple IS A PERFORMANCE. I ignore it.

[foreveryoung]

Billy and Seng's story on War of Y definitely opened a new perspective on me as a BL fan it made me realize that the BL industry in Thailand is not all butterflies and glamour, the actors having the dilemma to satisfy their management and the fans that it leads to them ending up broken to the point of feeling disgusted about themselves, the industry is so competitive that they push themselves to do something that they aren't comfortable and when they can't hide their dissatisfaction they would be scrutinised for being "ungrateful", it's sad but that's reality😔

[-thasisters-]

The cases of zeenunew and kit connor(person who played nick in heartstopper) are good examples of how the word queer baiting being used out of context all the time is so dangerous and harmful for the community and doing the opposite of what you intend to do. Even though most of the bl industry works on this marketing strategy to ofcourse make more money, considering all of it as queer baiting or fs would just leave zero chance for the actual queer actors to have a safe space . Kit connor was basically forced to come out as bi at such a young age when he has such a bright future and unfortunately that does affect his acting career since a lot of people avoid giving queer people "normal” roles in commercial movies . And all of this was bcz he was accused of queer baiting just bcz he was supporting lgbtq outside his series and was seen out with a girl(also goes to show how bisexuality is completely ignored every single time sexuality comes into talk) . And in the case of zeenunew, I think people should just not talk about it if they don’t believe it . I mean what harm did it do to anybody to say that they’re a couple ?(they didn’t say “I think we act like a couple” it was a mistranslation and it was actually corrected by a trusted Thai translator to be “you could say we’re a couple”) (also they would be more in danger than in advantage by outing themselves) I mean how else could you possibly announce your relationship in that industry ? Saying that it is fanservice when y’all clearly know up to what extent fanservice can go and it’s not to the point you admit that you’re a couple in a serious interview just for the publicity. They weren’t even like “neither denying nor accepting” or laughed it off saying “kidding” . So not accepting that There’s a possibility of two actors in a bl industry being in a relationship out of all the thousands of straight bl actors is just homophobic and is not helping in the representation that we crave for .

[tokublwhovian]

I was having a discussion with someone about queerbaiting in the recent era of Doctor Who a few days ago and it got hearted (I won’t go into that) from my perspective (as a gay man) I see queerbaiting as when two male or female characters are lovey dovey with each other, but don’t act upon their feelings (if that makes sense) I 100% agree queer characters shouldn’t need kiss or do the deed, confessions (“I love you”) are better.

[omma]

this also goes to the k-pop industry as well, it's awful how the fans who don't have lives stalk these individuals. also if more positive fans would speak out about the un necessary promoted fanservice some of this might die down. in interviews they ask inappropriate questions trying to make them speak on their connections with the other partner for their ratings. call it what you want was a good example of letting us know some of the abuse that was going on in the industry. and a few youtube videos also spoke on it. we need more less toxic people to speak out. since some of the companies sometime listen to what the fans are saying. I just want them all to be happy and healthy in their lives as actors/singers. 💜🖖

[xdlpbko]

As a queer person I have a bad perception of BL industry and its fandom, not all of it obvi, 1st due to some actors and/or companies that clearly profit from the LGBTQ+ community but want nothing to do with us.
A clear example was the month of June, almost no actor or BL company spoke about it, there were even actors who only attended the pride parade to promote their work, but they didn't even publish a mid post about the month of pride, NOTHING, these types of actors are the ones who accept a role just for money and fame, and IK that we all work to get a benefit and it's not necessary for an actor to publicly show his support but some of these border on homophobia or are homophobic, same with companies that refuse to accept LGBTQ+ people, I'm not saying that an actor has to be queer to represent a queer character, but you have real queer people who can clearly represent us, and here comes another problem, some companies use queer labels and claim to represent the community, BUT BL DOES NOT REPRESENT THE REALITIES OF QUEER PEOPLE, and this misconception extends to fandoms that may fetishize or idealize real couples.

[mileaposdaughter]

War of y literally potrayed so many serious topics that some fans find it "offensive" Cause they felt called out🗿
Also when lovely writer came out, some *fans* refused to watch it because Kao was acting with someone else instead of earth
4:48 - 5:17
My goodness, the way I agreed on this!!

8:38 this is why I love kinnporsche cast, kinnporsche taught so many things along with series/excellent acting, they are REAL, they don't fake, doesn't matter whether they are gay or straight or in a relationship, they have a bond that's why 80% of their fans are here. And that's why their fan following is growing day by day even after all these months of the end of the series.. I ship mileapo very much cause what they have feels like fate or soulmate, their past meetings and history are just magical, I want them to be together but I still go and crush over Apo with heart eyes 🤣😭 he is perfect ✨lol, I never went nor saw mature mileapo fans to go and spam their posts with relationship accusation, I love watching them cause they don't fake that's all And literally because of them I learned to recognize fan service just seeing once🤣..

[kara]

I dislike ship culture at all. This industry should focus on production and let the audience simply enjoy the show and appreciate casts' acting.

[DynesiusGaming]

The funny thing about the fan service and fanbase of BL shows/stories overall is that the majority of them feed themselves into imagining that the actors are canonically a couple IRL and then get mad when they are disappointed by their own imagination. They are literally being toxic to their own selves without even knowing it, and then take out that anger on the actors instead.

[notyourmoon]

Okay, so here comes my lengthy comment about the video.

First off, thank you for bringing this subject to light and dissecting it in a way that is not biased. There were some good points made throughout and I definitely agree that forcing actors to reveal their sexualities is selfishly intrusive.

However, as a Queer Thai person, I still feel that a large majority of the discussion is overly simplified. You gave an example of how an actor had stated that he 'would only do BL again when he runs out of money'. The thing is, this isn't an isolated incident. Many (and I mean A HELL LOT) of BL actors are homophobic and/or at the very least ignorant about LGBTQIA+ issues. We should not simplify this issue by saying that that certain actor is just an asshole. Although it's true that these actors are essentially doing everything they can to survive in the capitalistic world, it must also be discussed that they are taking away jobs from actual LGBTQ+ people who are struggling far more to make their presence known in the industry. The question is 'is it really right to be giving platforms to homophobic straight men and letting them profit off of our identities?' when in present time they are taking up queer spaces and perpetuating harmful stereotypes of our community. They want to reap the benefits yet can't find a time in their day to actually rally for LGBTQ+ rights outside of the typical overused 'love has no gender' bullshit. Representation should not be at the disposal of queer people.

Another discussion to be had is how many minors are casted into BL roles. Not only is it dangerous to place minors at the forefront of the spotlight to be fetishized and sexualized by straight women, it is also scary how this industry can take advantage of them. There was a hashtag that blew up on Thai twitter some time ago regarding minors in the entertainment industry. These minors are groomed into believing that providing fanservice and living up to the sexual fantasies of cishet women is an absolute must to survive in the industry. They are also made to perform NC/bed scenes in front of fully grown adult crews. So while their company/agency are doing little to nothing to educate them about LGBTQ+ issues, they are used as queerbaiting props.

I also hate the fact that BL is treated as a genre of its own when it is not. There are so many genres within BL works themselves (just like straight media) yet they are still constantly being labelled as just BL. The word BL/Yaoi originated from and is still largely used to avoid saying 'gay' (as it is aimed for cishet female consumers). There have been many instances of Yaoi fangirls denying that BL is gay despite the shows depicting clearly mlm relationships.

I could honestly go on for hours about how messed up this industry is and how truly disgusting it is to see queerbaiters excel monetarily from stealing our identities. It is such a sensitive, multi-layered topic. That's all I can think of for now though.

[huckcrbs]

I think this video is really important concerning recent events (like Kit Connor being forced to come out for example). It's also important to note that a lot of the times actors just have to do what their companies tell them and have no control over how much "fan service" they wanna do, so even if it seems like "queerbaiting" it's very likely that it's not even their choice

[Anie]

I definitely do agree with a lot of points from this. I do have mixed feelings about fan service.

This is coming from my perspective of being handsy with my bestie of 20 years. We’ve cuddled and all that stuff together, even in public many times, so it’s perfectly normal for friends to be affectionate in that way. Literally to the extent that almost everyone in high school thought we were dating. We never corrected anyone because who cares. 🙆🏻‍♀️

There are many genuine friendships between different pairs. A handful of pairs that were friends before starring in anything together. Earth and Mix, Billkin and PP, and Anson and Charles were friends with each other before acting together. There are also pairs that have been friends for years that met during castings. Max and Tul have been besties for 6+ years. Off and Gun have grown together and become close friends. Kaownah and Turbo, Ohm and Nanon, and Santa and Earth too. They’ve also been friends for years.

There are definitely random new pairs that go overboard with it, but there are also many that don’t care. Perth even said recently that many actors that only do what they’re comfortable with now, which I think is a good thing. No one should feel forced to do anything like that.
Hence me having mixed feelings about that aspect. It’s hard to judge those pairs since many have been friends for 5+ years as they’ve known each other for that long. It can become a habit you don’t even realize until someone points it out.

And on the flip/dark side, there have also been genuine friendships that ended because of excessive shipping from delulus so that happens too. I hate that. 🙃

Fans really need to understand that just because friends are touchy feely does not mean they’re dating. 🙆🏻‍♀️

—
On a similar note regarding friendships, there are two actors from a German series called Verbotene Liebe, Thore and Jo. They starred together as a queer couple for 4-5 years on the show.
They’ve been friends in real life for 14+ years, Jo was the best man at Thore’s wedding, and Jo is besties with Thore’s wife.
So yes, there are definitely friendships created from starring as a queer couple in a series. 💙😂

[firebluewood]

It’s one of those things where it’s not exactly queerbaiting, but it does make you feel like “Damn, they really are making their entire career on playing me like fiddle.” I think the main problem is that the media produced does justice for representation but it’s the strong fan service that’s more messed up. Fan service isn’t necessary to promote media, I’m not sure why it’s so prevalent in Thailand.

[theaolivia]

When you said a company that doesn't allow their main actor to come out.. GMMTV definitely come to my mind.

I know there 2 actor, who as soon as their contract expires and leave GMMTV announced their sexuality plus their boyfriend.

[BlaiddLove]

As a queer fan playing catch-up(watching both old and new BL during the pandemic), I've definitely noticed a move in the genre toward realism in depicting these queer characters and their relationships. What has taken decades in western media had happened in a few short years in BL. However, I only consume the narratives. As an American, non-teenager, the crass product placements and manipulative off screen shipping are easy for me to tune out.
Visibility is our strongest ally. It's rarely perfect but once our stories are out in the open it is inevitable that our truth will be told.

[booklver]

I think for some it's like Extra content - with MileApo or BibleBuild you often see "his Vegas jumped out" or "that was Kinn looking at Porsche" type of comments - it keeps the ship you enjoyed in the original media alive. It might be why a lot of the BL actors will remain in the "roles" of their characters aka the character is very dominant and possessive - the actor behaves that way with their onscreen partner (Boss Chaikamon as Payu is often like this in events with Noeul who plays Rain).
Altho apparently BOC does not require fanservice of their actors, they do what they want so a lot of what we see with them interacting outside of magazine shoots is apparently their genuine friendships.

[sprinkles]

Being from the West, I’ve had a hard time understanding shipping and fan service. It’s confusing to me. Pairs are strongly pushed as couples, yet they never confirm or deny their relationship or any relationship.