Why Electric Airplanes Face Such a Tough Haul: Joby Edition

Electric airplanes are coming at us a mile a minute with claims that seem to defy the laws of physics and maybe even Ohm's Law. In this AVweb video, Paul Bertorelli takes a critical look at what most people in the industry consider to be a leading contender to own the urban air mobility market: the Joby S4. It's a markable design and appears surprisingly mature. But can it make it through FAA certification on Joby's claimed schedule? And will the imagined volume in the thousands ever materialize?

[barbermot]

That's in "aviation dollars" as in what you tell your spouse vs what it actually costs.

[Mjln]

I admire these companies for 1) their incredible marketing and 2) their ability to make these claims with a straight face.

[tomdchi]

Thanks for a well-researched, well-thought out, level headed look at this. Neither an impossibility, nor an inevitable slam-dunk. The Segway was over-hyped when it was under development. It didn't live up to that hype, but you can buy one today so it didn't completely go away, and there are tons of related products like the One Wheel that derived from the underlying tech of the Segway. So it didn't revolutionize the world, but it also didn't die and disappear.

[gneisenau]

I always appreciate your impartial approach to this sector. As a fellow trade journalist (dietary supplements in my case) I check in on your channel not only because of my interest in aviation but also to be reminded of how to cover an industry right. You want to foster the industry's success (otherwise, what's the point of your work?) but at the same time make sure that those cases of overpromising and under delivering are brought to light. Thanks for the excellent work.

[andreww]

Joby wants to build a new technology that's fast, cheap, reliable, safe, built at enormous scale, being all (most) weather capable, and adhering to regs, while also likely trying to rework ATC systems to allow this type of thing. Oh, and make a profit. I suppose nothing is impossible, but that's a hell of a tall order.

[TheBlahblahblahhh]

IDK if it's literally just you or if you have a team helping you but either way ... This is absolutely incredible content. You hit a ton of salient points and it's clear you've done a ton of research.

Thanks so much for putting this together!

[calyodelphi]

You really set the golden standard of journalism with these AVweb editorials, Paul. I love that you take such a level-headed and rational approach to a topic that can (and should) be thought about rationally. <3

I may now have my eyes on Joby in the forseeable future. I intend to get part 135 certified and operate in and around the new england and mid atlantic region, but that aspiration is a few years' worth of weekend warrioring at a local flight school away. But hey, maybe by the time I get my CPL, Joby might (operative keyword there) be getting off the ground (pun intended), and I could keep my claws crossed that they might start eyeing the dense urban megalopolis that I now call my home as a market to start breaking into.

[adam]

That was fantastic. No hyperbole (negative or positive), just sober factual analysis. Loved it.

[CaptMikey-vcym]

100% true. Modern aviation has turned its spirit upside down. Everybody said, as you observed, "If man was meant to fly, he would have given the Wrights wings" or something like that. You are correct, the challenges of electric flight are monumental. We are back to the same old power for flight problem. The big thing the Wrights did was to develop a power plant just barely able to lift the Flyer. It was internal combustion, and it was developed into something useful in something like 15 to 20 years. The big developer was the military, the money bags. Energy density is a big limiting factor, but the performance of the electric motors, in some respects has been ignored, in terms of efficiency and heat. The rotation of the armature gets power from the field of the windings. But the field also creates drag which results in heat and big losses of total power and electric power consumption. Just the things that are of the biggest concern to aviation. There are ways to reduce this field drag which have largely been ignored. Let's get back to the "Spirit of the Wrights", be aware of the problems, but don't let them stop you. It seems like the American attitude has become "No, we can't". Let's see if we can turn that around.

[leftcoaster]

Great work Paul. Simple, rational. Not closed minded, but not a sucker for investment dollars either.

[shorttimer]

Mom was an engineering aid at Boeing starting about 1960, plotting out wind tunnel results by hand. She had the neatest fine tip pens I've ever seen. I got to do a walk through of Boeing's SST mockup, and browsed some of the Dyna Soar materiel she brought home. So I've been an outside observer of aviation news all my life.

I've never experienced anyone making the information so approachable to an outsider in as entertaining way as Paul does.

[kurtpena]

It's the greatest thing since the Rotodyne!
It's an ELECTRIC OSPREY being build by A RIDE SHARING COMPANY!!!
What could possibly go wrong!

[helicopter]

Great explanation, and as electrical engineer of many years with experience in lithium batteries, 3-phase inverters and similar high power electrical equipment, these adds for electric planes make me laugh. If anyone thinks a practical electric plane capable of carrying passengers and payloads will become a reality within the next 30 or so years, all I can say is keep on dreaming because we have a long long way to go before battery technology gets even close to the energy provided by 1 litre of kerosene ! I'm sure it will happen one day in distant future.

[jamesdoerr]

Paul, your sense of humor is the best.

[ChriscsHunter]

The public can now view this aircraft flying at Marina Airport just south of Santa Cruz on clear mornings. In flight it is extremely quiet and barely noticeable, and it became completely inaudible against other aircraft that were flying around the area. It appears that there is no pilot inside and is controlled remotely. Very exciting aircraft and I hope you make an updated video as more information comes out.

[yyyyyeeeee]

This channel has the best organized an impartial information on aviation, and out of all topic specific channels on youtube, this one is the best. I wish there was an AVweb for all of my interests.

[joetroyner]

I love that you can deliver an intelligent, nuanced commentary mixed with "driving across the country looking up the assholes of horses."

[chicagorandy]

As a 73yr old curmudgeonly geezer, I have seen many the 'pie' go by in the sky with VERY-VERY few of these concepts making it to final production and market success. Your report has quite clearly shown us the pros and cons of this type aircraft. Most everyone agrees that the battery remains the weakest of the links in this e-power chain, both on the ground and in the air. Thank you for an unbiased and information packed study.

[RadioMarkCroom]

Thanks for a thoughtful and seemingly balanced presentation on this important topic. Though I live and work in the Northern Plains of the US and will likely not see these in service in any of my markets in my lifetime, I want to see this technology succeed. My sense is that the battery weight issue -- kwh/kg -- is the big uncertainty that will be the difference between whether these will be practical or not. The rest of the technologies are just extensions of what is already in service (VTOL airplanes exist, multi-rotor small aircraft exist, composite constructed airframes exist, etc). But light enough batteries? Not quite sure they exist yet. New tech probably needed and we're clearly running up against the laws of physics as we understand them. It will be very interesting to keep an eye on this sector and particularly on Joby as they are powerfully motivated to succeed in this brave new world.

[DanJohnsonAffordableAviation]

ANOTHER great Paul Bertorelli video. Good writing. Good production values. Excellent message. Go, Paul!