Can Game Mechanics Be Art?

Timestamps:
0:00 - The Thriller Cut
2:00 - Video Games Can Never Be Art
3:14 - The Game in Games
5:26 - Naughty Dog Killing
7:43 - How to Beat Windows XP
10:09 - Dark Souls' Soul
11:53 - Playing Art

Twitter: @CoreAGaming

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Sources:

BGM in order:

Fatal Frame 2 - Villagers
Silent Hill 2 - Heaven's Night
R83AISEFDWHHERWU
Marvel vs Capcom 2 - Clocktower
Mega Man X - Sigma Fortress 1
Street Fighter III: 2nd Impact - Alex Stage
Tekken 4 - Authentic Sky
Dark Souls - Firelink Shrine
Rising Thunder - Edge Theme
Gerald Lee - Dreamland

[perkedel]

This guy can literally talks about why a chair is called a chair and i'd still watch it even if it takes 1 hour. Great writing, keep it up Core-A.

[justicehudson]

This man and his work are the living representation of quality over quantity

[TheSpectator]

The only reason this is still an argument is because videogames as a medium are relatively "new" compared to other media and it still misunderstood, videogames are versatile by nature so is really hard to classify them as an art form sometimes, from Journey to to Cooking Mama, priorities are set by the creators, so like literature, film or music, is opt to them to decide if they want to communicate something, or just to be a piece of media made to entertain.

[AlluMan]

To me, this whole "Are games art" conversation is one I've always found rather pointless, because arguing about "the defenition of art" in general is an excercise in frustration and futility. Art truly is the most frustrating word, because it's one of those words without a real definition. Not because you can't find a definition, but because people will argue it and disagree with it. It makes sense. Given that most will agree that art is about eliciting emotions, it's something being governed by such an esoteric part of our heads. Arguing Roger Ebert's claim is annoying, because who's to say we're even talking about the same thing strictly speaking and who's to say anyone that's listening to the argument is hearing an argument about the same thing either one of us is talking about?

For me, I've always broken art down to the most basic of definitions. It's finding a creative way to convey an idea or feeling to someone. It's a lax definition that doesn't exclude almost anything. If you say you want it to be called art, I'll call it that. To me, a board game like Monopoly is art. Both it and it's likened The Landlord's Game was designed with the intent of conveying the unjust side of capitalism and it does a good job. It uses interactivity to let people feel exactly how unfair their situation truly is and the fact that another person is doing it to you with intent nails that point home. In my definition, even a conversation can be seen as a form of art. Finding the right words to most accurately convey how you feel and think, as well as the ability to receive that information and build upon it with retort is undenyably a skillful, creative expression.

I define art like this not because I don't have a passion for art and just don't care one way or the other, but quite the opposite in fact. By removing this arbiturary restriction of what I can see as art, I'm more receptive to experience someone's creative work and appreciate it's qualities. Might not be the most useful mentality for a critic like Ebert, but this is where we loop back around to the "This conversation is frustrating" point.

[zoroasper]

Great video, truly

One thing that a lot of people don't understand when discussing this issue (are videogames art?) is that they simply ignore the defining characteristic of a video game which is the mechanics.
If you don't have game mechanics you don't have a game, you have a picture, a movie, a music score.
What brings it all together into something greater than the sums of its parts is the mechanics.
A video game is not art because the writers wrote a good story or because the 3d artists made good looking models, it's because those things serve the purpose of eliciting some kind of response when in the context of actually playing it

When people try to define art they often go to the safe old "art is a piece of work designed to elicit an emotional response".
Aren't game mechanics designed for the same exact reason?
A game mechanic is always designed around the idea that the player will have an emotional response off of it; tension, anger, calm, happyness, sorrow, whatever

How is a simple pixel art game about working in a border control booth able to make me feel real dread in a way that no other art form could ever imagine? It's because of the mechanics

[kingofthegrapes]

You draw a line between the gameplay and the motif, but I feel these to parts are more connected than you present. The obvious example is once again Dark Souls, where the overwhelming challenge makes the world feel bleak, instead of just looking and sounding bleak. The motif of the game would be lost if the gameplay was different, tying the two together. This also is a part of how survival horror games work, by keeping you on edge and anxious by hindering your ability in gameplay.

good vid btw

[joshuatheawesome]

This debate has always been between people who understand games and those who don’t.

At this point the classification of video games as an artistic medium is completely undeniable, although I still think we’ve barely scratched the surface of what can be done with it.

[NikozBG]

Even though art is vaguely defined concept almost everyone will agree that art includes things like self expression, creativity and the ability to evoke emotions. In that sense there is no obvious reason to exclude videogames in particular. The only way to do this is to hijack the definition and to purposefully add arbitrary exclusions or overly-specific requirements to it.

[ignorance]

There’s a sort of “Art School Meta” which suggests that any art form is defined by whether or not there’s a debate over if it’s truly art. Meaning that as long as the discussion stays alive, it’s a good indicator that video games as an artistic medium still thrives.

As always, great thought-provoking video!

[TheRealGuywithoutaMustache]

I'm sure the majority of people who clicked in the first place would've considered video games as art already.

[saintjynr]

I like the last part of the quote at the end, "Art leads to transformation". Usually some would associate this transformation with big changes in society or the people's way of thinking, but keeping with the video's topic of video games, I'd like to bring it to a more personal level. For context, I used to be an extremely introverted kid to the point some people in my classroom at school thought I was mute. So, when I was around 15 years old, a friend introduced me to Persona 4. RPGs have a lot of "power of friendship" moments, but maybe none as hard as persona, where mechanics of the game are to grow closer to your friends so you are stronger in battle, and of course that message of friendship is important in the games narrative as well. And by the time I finished that game, I'll be damned if I didnt feel like crap. I'd never admit it at the time, but the reason I went from a depressed teen with barely any friends to someome happy with themselves and with healthy relationships, was because I wanted to emulate that "dumbass talking about the power of friendship" that seemed so much better than me, as I'm sure I would say it at the time, and god damn if thats not transformation, I dont know what it is

[Voidward]

If you've played games all your life, this isn't a topic that needs rebuttal. You already know games are art and don't need to argue with someone who never actually played games.

It's like a deaf classical art critic arguing with you that music can't be art because he watched a concert without ever experiencing the sound and didn't like it.

[Brian_F]

Prepping my cup of coffee for this one

[arachnofiend]

We're at the point where art that *must* be a video game is made pretty damn frequently. The AAA productions are still chasing Hollywood's coattails with cutscene fiestas with gameplay slapped in the middle, but looking only at them is like judging all cinema by the MCU. Frostpunk is about the cold mathematics of a society struggling to survive disaster in a way that a movie cannot be; Needy Streamer Overload is about codependency and the pressures of life as a public internet figure in a way that a book cannot be. The presence of a win condition is ESSENTIAL to these experiences, I truly believe these are stories that can not be told in the same way in any other medium.

[PurooRoy]

Is drawing art? Yes.
Is sculpting art? Yes.
Is music art? Yes.
Is storytelling art? Yes.
Is having the ability to challenge people in creative ways art? Yes.
Is architecture art? Yes.
Video games are a combination of all these things. How can they possibly not be art?
Sure you may say that there were games that are less into the art side and more on the mechanics side, like Dark Souls or eSports. But they are just like a drawing which is not very detailed but conveys a powerful message (like Picasso's paintings). So are they not considered art? We need talent to make them, we sell them to an audience who likes to see it, it's mostly about seeing and less about understanding. Sounds pretty much like art to me.

[samuraispartan]

For most people, the word “art” is just a synonym for “important”, “prestigious” or “valuable.” I don’t think it has anything to do with expressive capacity. It’s more a question of cultural significance.

[itchylol]

"Anxiety disorders that affect tens of millions of Americans"

Good thing I'm not American so I can watch horror movies without anxiety 😎

[Lotobedra]

Let's think about this: Is an Animal Planet documentary considered art just because it involves film-making skills? Wouldn't non-fiction books, like Daigo's, then be art as well because they involve writing composition skills? I think it's not that simple. And just like we can separate artistic books and films from non-artistic, we can probably do it with video games.

Like literally always: superb video essay, by the way.

(EDIT 1: I'm not claiming that those two are not art/artistic at all, just that medium doesn't immediately and by itself define art. This is considering "art" as something more specific than "anything a human ever creates", which I believe is the reason the word even exists.

EDIT 2: After reconsidering and thanks to some comments, I agree that most Animal Planet documentaries are too artistic to be classified as primarily non-artistic, even with how I explained I approach the concept.)

[RiskierGoose]

13:50

This is a really good point. It shows that if there is something that you don’t like, it doesn’t make said part unnecessarily or even detrimental to the game, or whatever piece of media you’re viewing.

[MangaMarjan]

Interesting discussion you sparked here but I honestly find it redundand to argue If games are art. What seems more interesting to me is, how they are art and in what ways interactivity adds to that.
Because like games, every other form of art needs interactivity too. You have to read a book, you have to watch a movie, you have to listen to a song. What makes art so interesting, is how this interaction with it affects you, others and society at large. Games, in that way, a probably the most potent medium because they offer an interactivity that is well beyond passive consumption. An alternate ending isn't bad, it just serves another message, leaves more room for interpretations and so on.