Pickleball Question! In Tournaments, Why Do Some Players Chose To Play Up In Skill Level?

In this video, players who may or may not be playing up in skill level. Watch and decide for yourself.

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[theachaplin]

I have more of an issue with sandbaggers. Last tournament I played was 4.0-4.5 and there were 2 separate 5.0+ (high reliability dupr rated) players on my net. And those two teams easily ended up playing for gold.

[keithchasteen]

Yes, folks do play out of their level quite often, for the various reasons you noted at the start of the video. There are also folks who play down. Thanks for the video!

[michaelnoe]

Some of your notes on "why people may play up" also happens with some players who play lower. There can be other issues with tournaments depending on the numbers of players which may force less level options, no brackets by age, placement by highest player or average team levels. Just off 1 game I could say that the overall play of all 4 players did not feel like a 4.0 game to me, in general. Most points were over very quickly and there were many things that didn't always feel like 4.0 play. Mostly for one team things like the number of pop ups, missed returns, drives/drops and positional issues.

[CWK]

Rory,
Good information about DUPR reliability component.
That explains why some players play doesn't match their DUPR.

[davidknapp]

Rory, I think Ted did not use a continental grip and possibly used a “pancake?” grip instead that accounts for his serve and “smash” style ball strike. Besides his failure to move up, he has “happy feet” when on the NVZ line and is often out of position. Definitely not 4.0, no drop shots noted.

[steveiannazzo]

If you never play up it'll be hard to get promoted to the next rating level.

I played against a guy yesterday in rec play who complained about the rating system because he says he "...always wins his tournaments but his rating never changes". If you're consistently winning at your rating level then it's time to play up and challenge yourself.

Example: If you're a 3.45 playing at 3.0 (which you have a right to do) you're almost always facing players with a lower rating. The algorithm thinks you're supposed to win those matches so when you do win you don't get rewarded. Nor should you. You're playing lower rated opponents.
But if you play UP to 3.5 (only a 0.05 stretch) you're facing 3.5-3.99 players. So now you're facing players who are rated higher than you. If you manage to score a decent number of points (even if you lose) you should get rewarded by incremental ratings boosts. The bigger the rating disparity the bigger the reward.

It all depends on what motivates you. If you want to win tin medals - then play at the lowest level you can. You'll be stuck there forever but you'll collect a lot of trinkets.
If you want to challenge yourself and improve your game...and your rating...play up a level.

Do what makes you happy. It's only pickleball.

[tomfowlerwrites]

Ideally, players would only be allowed to play down in age bracket and up in skill level.

Also, some people might want to play with their friend(s) or frequent doubles partner and not care much about the rating.

I would say Jacky is a legit 4.0+. His partner seemed solid enough, maybe 3.75-4.0. The other team... 3.25-3.5.

[shipwreck]

I think the main reason why players play up a level is because it's harder to climb up if you play low. I had someone who's a 5.0 play in 4.5 and because he set himself at 4.5 it became harder for him to climb up once you establish your rating at that. That's what I heard from people, I don't know if it's true. But these players aren't actually 4.0. Like most players who overrate themselves, it's annoying.

[tanthony]

Rory, the overwhelming majority of people who play in pickleball tournaments are heavy-duty sandbagging.
People are more interested in chasing trophies than playing competitively.
DUPR does not fix this, it is a serious problem in tournament play.
Most players that pay money for tournaments are getting screwed

[okayest_amateur]

I'm wondering if near court guy has some permanent injury on his shoulder socket because his swing is so unnatural. It seems as if he is only able to move his arm up and down and not side to side. Any healthy person would not swing the forearm the way he does. It is too far out of the norm not to be injury related. You can see at the end of his swing he is lifting his whole shoulder instead of swinging through. Just another thought.

[billhumpertt]

Ted and Jackie are no more than 3.0, Ted needs to Pickleball 101

[chrismcglothen]

I’m still scratching my head why the one lady is wearing a cardigan? It almost felt like the one good player took it easy on them as well.

Maybe they didn’t have any teams that were rated in the 3.0 level so they played up?

[Mike-ljc]

I’ve known 3.5+ players play 4.0 in order to lower their rating below 3.5 for an upcoming larger tournament so as to play 3.0

[elliottfletcher]

The guy with the (unorthodox) underhand scoop forehand seemed a little too intense/competitive for being a complete beginner level player (should not be anywhere near a 4.0 tournament), if Jacky actually is 4.0 (I haven't watched his games), this must have kind of been a boring let-down for him...that or mildly amusing 😅.

[jorowi]

The DUPR confidence score is important. Mine is currently 4.315 with a low confidence rating. I'm 3.5, at best.

The audio is probably cutting out because of the music.

[lr]

I would even add that Ted is the lowest ranked player out there. I’d say he is about 2.75 - 2.9. He keeps jumping around, never set. His feet are always in the kitchen.
I’m a certified USAP rater and Advanced Instructor, and the people I teach just for the first time, some have better skills than that losing team… hate to knock players, but they need to know reality.
Always love you vids Rory

[davo]

I know you started this video off focusing on players playing up, but what about players playing down? do you know the DUPR's for all these players, are any actually playing down??

[dm]

In my experience many players play DOWN in tournaments in order to medal against weaker opponents. I have no problem with a team playing up.

[CareyFan]

Even 100% reliability rating is not totally reliable.

I have seen several players who top out at a certain rating because they don’t gain much rating even if they win. But then they go through an improvement spike and still go up in rating painfully slowly. Some of these players are “stuck” in a 3.6ish range but actually play like 4.0+ players.

It would be better if DUPR “resets” ratings after a few months. Put players on a “floor” rating. So let’s say anyone who is in the 3.0-3.5 range gets reset to 3.0 and players in the 3.5-4.0 range get reset to 3.5.

Or they need to allow for greater up and down rating movement even when a player has 100% reliability score. Moving up .008 at a time is frustratingly slow. A player could theoretically win his next 50 games in a row, earn .008 per match and not even move up half a DUPR point.

[wanderingaloudwithmark]

At 6:55 Ted is in no mans land a big no no. Definitely not a 4.0 strategy.